Chris E
I'm Not Slash
We call em time wasters here, because that's all they are. I'm pretty sure its mainly a big city phenomenon but they are here and they are here in big numbers.
Free Bid versus Consult, how to explain to the customers
- Thread starter SouthSoundTree
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We call em time wasters here, because that's all they are. I'm pretty sure its mainly a big city phenomenon but they are here and they are here in big numbers.
CurSedVoyce
California Hillbilly
In Los Angeles, you just have to roll like Nick does. You cover your ass with the details as well.
Mick!
TreeHouser
There is a lot of people in big citys who act without conscience because of the lack of accountability, ie you are unlikely to see that person again. I can see how every base must be covered to avoid assholery.
I'd never get away with charging for estimates/consults but then again any consulting I do is always verbal, I'm too lazy to type up written quotes, except if it's a Local Council job. I just have a duplicate book with a company stamp.
Mind that might change soon as I open the portals of hell into a new tax bracket.
My "qualifying a client" is done on the phone, phrases like "I'd like you to come and look at my trees" set alarm bells ringing, whereas "I need a tree taken down" gets the truck warmed up.
I'd never get away with charging for estimates/consults but then again any consulting I do is always verbal, I'm too lazy to type up written quotes, except if it's a Local Council job. I just have a duplicate book with a company stamp.
Mind that might change soon as I open the portals of hell into a new tax bracket.
My "qualifying a client" is done on the phone, phrases like "I'd like you to come and look at my trees" set alarm bells ringing, whereas "I need a tree taken down" gets the truck warmed up.
Mick!
TreeHouser
Puts me in mind of a story told on Arbtalk (forgive me if I get some details wrong but the bones of it are true)
A guy quotes and gets a job involving a tree over a flat roof, of which the felt is in poor condition, jobs booked in for Monday morning.
For one reason or another the job was cancelled but in the afternoon the boss of the tree co. receives a call from an irate homeowner (presumably from work) saying that the tree guys have severely damaged the roof and demanding his insurance details so that it can be fixed. It took the wind out of his sails a bit when he was told they hadn't even been!
Now THATS a bad client.
A guy quotes and gets a job involving a tree over a flat roof, of which the felt is in poor condition, jobs booked in for Monday morning.
For one reason or another the job was cancelled but in the afternoon the boss of the tree co. receives a call from an irate homeowner (presumably from work) saying that the tree guys have severely damaged the roof and demanding his insurance details so that it can be fixed. It took the wind out of his sails a bit when he was told they hadn't even been!
Now THATS a bad client.
SouthSoundTree
Treehouser
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #31
So, Mick, what is your follow up to wanting their trees like at?
Would be funny to say " No thanks, I have plenty to look at here. We have evaluation and consulting services if that's what you need".
Would be funny to say " No thanks, I have plenty to look at here. We have evaluation and consulting services if that's what you need".
Mick!
TreeHouser
Well Sean, as you can guess I am a model of politeness! But depending on my mood/amount of work in front of me I'll using come out with something like "what is it exactly you want done?"
My wife works for an estate agent here (her brother) and part of her job is determining on the phone if the people coming over from the UK to look at houses are serious or not. So she asks questions "have you got the money in place?" "Do you know what sort of house you're after?" Simple stuff really but can save the agents time and money driving time wasters around the country on a free guided tour.
I try (in a manner as polite as I'm able!) to do the same.
My wife works for an estate agent here (her brother) and part of her job is determining on the phone if the people coming over from the UK to look at houses are serious or not. So she asks questions "have you got the money in place?" "Do you know what sort of house you're after?" Simple stuff really but can save the agents time and money driving time wasters around the country on a free guided tour.
I try (in a manner as polite as I'm able!) to do the same.
SouthSoundTree
Treehouser
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #33
Haha,
This is the time of year where I have too much to do.
I've figured that 50 cent words sell those on the fence, our weed them out.
I have started providing a couple pages of printed (branded) info that I drew up for a community business promotional event. Basic phc/ diseases, pruning info.
While out there that I will look for structural defects, fruiting bodies for ganoderma applanatum, armillilaria, phellinus pini heart root, tell tale signs of root damage, or Phellinus sulphurescenscence, confirm root collar depth, etc
Either they realize I'm not "another tree guy", or someone else is a better service provider match.
This is the time of year where I have too much to do.
I've figured that 50 cent words sell those on the fence, our weed them out.
I have started providing a couple pages of printed (branded) info that I drew up for a community business promotional event. Basic phc/ diseases, pruning info.
While out there that I will look for structural defects, fruiting bodies for ganoderma applanatum, armillilaria, phellinus pini heart root, tell tale signs of root damage, or Phellinus sulphurescenscence, confirm root collar depth, etc
Either they realize I'm not "another tree guy", or someone else is a better service provider match.
Mick!
TreeHouser
Frankly, I am just another tree guy.
The French are very pragmatic about trees, it's very rare that any effort will be made, or funded to save a tree.
Take it out, grind the root, plant another.
Just the way I like it!
The French are very pragmatic about trees, it's very rare that any effort will be made, or funded to save a tree.
Take it out, grind the root, plant another.
Just the way I like it!
SouthSoundTree
Treehouser
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #35
I live amongst part tree huggers, and part water front home owners and party people who get nervous with storms of the pacific and 100' trees as normal, some going 150'.
This is logging and gardening country. Lots of guys to spur up trees. Lots of people with precious landscaping. The state capitol, government jobs, helps fund some of my work, indirectly.
This is logging and gardening country. Lots of guys to spur up trees. Lots of people with precious landscaping. The state capitol, government jobs, helps fund some of my work, indirectly.
NickfromWI
King of Splices
We ask people very directly, "what are you looking to have done to your trees?"
There's some wacky people in LA, and some cheapskates. That question alone saves us the misery of meeting either of them.
love
nick
There's some wacky people in LA, and some cheapskates. That question alone saves us the misery of meeting either of them.
love
nick
802climber
TreeHouser
Good info here.
What I am heading towards, is continuing "free estimates" because all the competition here does them, on more treecare-ish bids talk enough to prove knowledge then suggesting a PHC consult as a service option @ $75/hr then coming back with tools, work clothes and separate form to do the consult possibly combined with some pruning, etc at their property. Soil test, written PHC plan, minor rcx etc could round out this consult deal. Plenty of trades charge to show up at all, but we just don't have that option around here.
But then again there are tree guys offering "free consult" so who knows.......Just confusing the customers.
What I am heading towards, is continuing "free estimates" because all the competition here does them, on more treecare-ish bids talk enough to prove knowledge then suggesting a PHC consult as a service option @ $75/hr then coming back with tools, work clothes and separate form to do the consult possibly combined with some pruning, etc at their property. Soil test, written PHC plan, minor rcx etc could round out this consult deal. Plenty of trades charge to show up at all, but we just don't have that option around here.
But then again there are tree guys offering "free consult" so who knows.......Just confusing the customers.
treelooker
Treehouser
This can work in many markets, as does Nick's tiered refund approach. I sell inventories/consultations as a standalone, hi value service that requires no other inducement. Definitely writing the specs so anyone can follow them makes it a good investment.
I hear the same BS from tree guys drooling for removal work that I heard (and said) in 1974. Lies and dam lies, SOP. Public's lack of trust for our trade is well-earned.
802climber
TreeHouser
Yep for sure! I just meant it's hard to sell the consult when the other guy is giving it away for free.
SouthSoundTree-
TreeHouser
- Joined
- Sep 24, 2014
- Messages
- 4,941
Gotta stand out from the crowd. Its funny what business casual does at consults and bids for credibility to a customer, compared to tree working clothes, IMO.
I got back with a customer yesterday at their newly purchased home. I met the during the buying process, no charge, right before i started this thread. Got the okay to do a week's work at day-rate, in their absence, with an informal approval if we run a bit long. I said we probably won't need a whole week, and I'll keep them up to date daily by email. Great customers. He approached me about a deposit before I approached him.
I got back with a customer yesterday at their newly purchased home. I met the during the buying process, no charge, right before i started this thread. Got the okay to do a week's work at day-rate, in their absence, with an informal approval if we run a bit long. I said we probably won't need a whole week, and I'll keep them up to date daily by email. Great customers. He approached me about a deposit before I approached him.
Mick!
TreeHouser
Good news Sean,
IME all the factors like what you're wearing, vehicle you turn up in, pale in comparison to one simple thing, confidence and keeping your ears open.
Obviously dressing like a tramp or turning up in a wreck is a no no, but work gear, even if you're covered in sawdust is fine.
The most pressing considerations for the client are 1. Does this bloke know what he's talking about 2. Can he do the job without wrecking my house/garden.
Another tip is silence, use it, walk around, say very little, look up, nod a lot.
Then when you give the price, shut up, don't go justifying yourself. Let them look at each other in the secret language couples use while you fold your papers.
(As you can tell I'm on a bit of a run lately!)
and shut the briefcase.
Oh, and grow a beard.
IME all the factors like what you're wearing, vehicle you turn up in, pale in comparison to one simple thing, confidence and keeping your ears open.
Obviously dressing like a tramp or turning up in a wreck is a no no, but work gear, even if you're covered in sawdust is fine.
The most pressing considerations for the client are 1. Does this bloke know what he's talking about 2. Can he do the job without wrecking my house/garden.
Another tip is silence, use it, walk around, say very little, look up, nod a lot.
Then when you give the price, shut up, don't go justifying yourself. Let them look at each other in the secret language couples use while you fold your papers.
(As you can tell I'm on a bit of a run lately!)
and shut the briefcase.
Oh, and grow a beard.
Tucker943
Bamboo Plantation Owner
I 100% agree with Mick. I started out trying to dazzle the world in collared embroidered shirts, and a clean SUV. That shit sold nothing. As I learned what I was doing, and became confident in myself, that sold work. People want to see a guy look up a tree and respond without batting an eye. They want to know this is just another day in the week for you. Blabbing on about crap they don't understand and stammering about this that and the other sometimes seems to make them wonder if you are unsure of what you are up against. When Im writing the invoice and they ask "so is this a big deal to take down?" I don't even skip a beat or hardly look up from my pad when I say "No, not at all. Cleaning it up takes the most time". They want to smell confidence. Not arrogance, but confidence that their tree isn't putting your company to its ultimate test.
So right, Chris.
The advertizing guy who designed my homepage, asked us for what he called:"comfort pictures" ......Pictures of us taking down trees right next to houses, so the potential client can look at those and think: " If they can handle those trees, mine will be a piece of cake for them".
I had never thought of it like that, but it makes perfect sense.
The advertizing guy who designed my homepage, asked us for what he called:"comfort pictures" ......Pictures of us taking down trees right next to houses, so the potential client can look at those and think: " If they can handle those trees, mine will be a piece of cake for them".
I had never thought of it like that, but it makes perfect sense.
MasterBlaster
Administrator Emeritus
If it was easy, everyone would be doing it.
squisher
THE CALM ONE!!!!
One of my confidence lines I use. "Fish in a barrel". I like watching it sink in, and the lightbulb come on as they think "This is the guy we want".
SouthSoundTree-
TreeHouser
- Joined
- Sep 24, 2014
- Messages
- 4,941
Good thoughts. Thanks.
802climber
TreeHouser
sotc
Dormant hero!!
Like the rest of the work we do, you gotta know your costs and what you want to make power hour and develop numbers that work for you
Mick!
TreeHouser
Having seen your set up Willie (your company pics) I would say that figuring out costs and power hours etc is more your domain.
I'm a one gang set up, I have no idea of costs I just know I do alright, I envy your outfit, but I doubt I have the discipline to run/own something like yours. At 50 I don't suppose I want to.
Kudos to you though.
I'm a one gang set up, I have no idea of costs I just know I do alright, I envy your outfit, but I doubt I have the discipline to run/own something like yours. At 50 I don't suppose I want to.
Kudos to you though.
sotc
Dormant hero!!
It doesn't take much time, you could sit down with a good accountant for an hour if you've had bookkeeping done and learn more about your own business than you've ever known. It will blow your mind, guaranteed.
And will more than pay for itself.
And will more than pay for itself.
