Free Bid versus Consult, how to explain to the customers

SouthSoundTree

SouthSoundTree

Treehouser
Joined
Sep 1, 2010
Messages
5,958
Location
Olympia, WA
I run into way too many questions at bids, and would like to

1) get paid for my time
2) weed out bad customers
3) not allienate good customers, and lose out on doing their bids.

Recently, as an example, the renter was told to get bids to 'clean up' the tree or remove it. I ended up skipping the bid. She was a busy mom with two kids that she was wrangling into/ out of the car when I called. She couldn't tell me what they needed besides "cleaning up the tree". I get this 'clean it up' thing a lot, and try to navigate what it means to be able to give a spec'ed bid, so I'm not having to spend time trying to figure out what's what at the house.


I would like to have in writing (I'm developing a form to email/ download from website, for the customer) what they want on which trees. If they don't know what a tree is called, then #1, #3, etc is fine. Too much "Well, you'll have to look at it" is #2.

#1 "pine" tree clean-up away from roof.
#2 "pine" tree remove tree. no stump grinding. take branches. leave firewood.
#3 "leaf' tree remove broken branches, cut back from building.
Protect rhododendron.
Wires near #3

This give me the idea of scheduling time for three tree to be bid for specific things. In, out, half an hour to talk about proper pruning and spurless climbing, disposal options (chips for mulch, firewood haul off or leave), etc.

I don't want to give them education/ PHC advice/ professional services for free. I want to be able to detail services (including assessments/ consults) along with the form to fill out. This happens too much. Some people understand neither an M.D. and a mechanic diagnose for free, and I have legal liability if I don't warn customers of hazardous trees (esp. as a Cert. Arborist, according to the ISA training, maybe John Ball. Professional duty or some such thing, even if I don't go to look at that particular tree. A shitty deal. ).

I try to explain to people, concisely, why I charge by the hour for consultations. Some people just want a free lunch, and to take my info for free, then go with the other cheaper guy. Too many "you've been very educational/ informative/ knowledgable/ helpful'.

I've been wearing a button down shirt and shorts or non-'work' pants to bids lately. I think its better. People don't expect me to be digging into their root sinuses to look for decay if I'm dressed nicely for a free bid. As much.

Help on how to explain it, word it, say it, without alienating, and with setting good parameters. I have my usual thing, but would not mind making a better 'usual' with specific points to remember easily as to why it it not free bid to help them sort out what they want or professional analysis/ eval.

Am I being unreasonable? Is this something everyone struggles with? Should I just figure on losing out on some bid opportunities and just call it good?

Seems shifty/ shady to tell them $75/ hour for a consult, and I'll take it off the bid if we do the work, which would then just be $75 higher bid. Seems shadier to take someone's hard earned knowledge for free, then go with the cheap guy to implement my ideas.

WAYYYY to many people are unaware of simple things like water your FU()&ng trees when its droughty, full sun, and 95 degrees, especially with some drought-intolerant trees. Then I have to go into watering regiments, etc, etc. "Thanks, we'll water the cedar (and keep it from dying a slow death, and get it 'cleaned-up' by the cheap guy)".
 
Wow, that seems like your putting a lot of thought into something simple. I spend whatever time is needed on the estimate within reason. Show up, talk tree stuff, sign the contract(or don't) maybe you run into different problems I'm not understanding
 
....seems on most sales calls they all get a free Dendritics and Tree Biology lesson...part of selling if one is knowledgeable I guess
 
Yup, like the others. I'll gladly consult for free and fill a estimate form along the way.

Hell I've 'consulted' my way right out of work before too, which in some minds might seem like a complete waste of time, but really it isn't.

I'll move someone along if a bid is dragging, or I may stay and chat for awhile myself. If a bid/quote/consult goes long I seem to always get the job, so I don't fight it.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #8
Maybe I talk too much.

I"m trying to establish an agenda with people. I might look at 20 trees on one property, or way more. I've worked on 50 around one house before.

Mulch problems, bark inclusions, signs of root disease, why we shouldn't prune off 50% or spur on maintenance climbing, CODIT, yadayada. Maybe I talk too much. Is my tree okay? what do I need to do? Why do my maples look sick? A lot of this comes along during the process. It adds up.
 
If it's that many trees, which isn't common here for a private residential job, then I'll charge if they want me to write up a prescription/assessment of what needs to be done. I've done a lot of assessments/inventory on multi tree sites and just charge accordingly.
 
We charge $50 minimum for a simple verbal consult. Make it clear right from the get go that you charge and how much. We have more and more people calling and looking for someone that can help them answer tree related questions without having a clear goal in mind. Most of these folks expect to pay for this information. You should be able to tell from the first phone call.

A consult is when the person calls seeking information. An estimate is when they call asking for the cost of a specific task. Once you understand the difference, it is much easier to communicate that to the client. They get the difference.
 
That's the smart way of doing it for sure.

Sometimes I consult for free, but I still think it pays off in the long run.
 
I've had people ask me to walk their proprety and tell them what needs to be done, then call another guy and get a quote that's 10% less, using my exact quote.

If I feel this is the type of person I'm up against, Ill give them a global amount on the work, without specifics. This way, they can't use my bid when low-level companies are my competition. If they give me some work, Ill then show them what I have in mind.

I haven't had to do it often, but it has come up.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #13
DMc said:
We charge $50 minimum for a simple verbal consult. Make it clear right from the get go that you charge and how much. We have more and more people calling and looking for someone that can help them answer tree related questions without having a clear goal in mind. Most of these folks expect to pay for this information. You should be able to tell from the first phone call.

A consult is when the person calls seeking information. An estimate is when they call asking for the cost of a specific task. Once you understand the difference, it is much easier to communicate that to the client. They get the difference.
Click to expand...


I usually go for a $75/ hour, one hour minimum. Often, I may run long, and may or may not charge extra. Maybe I'd get less resistance to go for $50/ hour, and charge for the whole time I'm consulting. I always wait until questions are answered, then go off the clock for the bid. By then, usually I know what their parameters are, to an extent, discovered during paid time.
 
DMc said:
We charge $50 minimum for a simple verbal consult. Make it clear right from the get go that you charge and how much. We have more and more people calling and looking for someone that can help them answer tree related questions without having a clear goal in mind. Most of these folks expect to pay for this information. You should be able to tell from the first phone call.

A consult is when the person calls seeking information. An estimate is when they call asking for the cost of a specific task. Once you understand the difference, it is much easier to communicate that to the client. They get the difference.
Click to expand...

Nicely worded, especially the last paragraph.

I am not a certified arborist any more because I got tired of people calling wanting free over the phone information and not willing to pay to have someone come out and look at the trees. In our area there isn't much demand for specilized arborist work anyway because the bulk of the work is either removals or trimming and pruning. I don't miss being a certified arborist and our business hasn't suffered at all. If I get questions on a tree while doing a plain old estimate, I do answer the question but don't go into big details or explanations that are over most people's head.

Like many have stated, I have put my best foot forward and had it stepped on toooo many times by being underbid after taking so much time with a potential customer. I basically just wasted my time, knowledge and gas.

If I do get a call from someone wanting information I refer them over to the local extension service.
 
Along the lines of what Dave said, I went to a house where the people had just moved in and it came with a garden and a nice assortment of trees. We walked around, I pointed out this and that, told them what was wrong with some, how it could be improved etc., etc. $50 for the walk about, recommendations and ID for about an hr.
I will be into that garden in the near future, specific work on specific trees I might need to give an estimate so they can budget, that will be free.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #16
DMc said:
We charge $50 minimum for a simple verbal consult. Make it clear right from the get go that you charge and how much. We have more and more people calling and looking for someone that can help them answer tree related questions without having a clear goal in mind. Most of these folks expect to pay for this information. You should be able to tell from the first phone call.

A consult is when the person calls seeking information. An estimate is when they call asking for the cost of a specific task. Once you understand the difference, it is much easier to communicate that to the client. They get the difference.
Click to expand...


This is succinct. I like it. Two sentences are all they need.

I have a few people volunteer to compensate me when we hadn't discussed a 'consult', and many others who wanted me to tell them everything for free, then wanted a bid to compare against others (shop around with my knowledgle).

My consult this morning already had a gardening consult, so didn't blink at a fee from our phone call.

I'm trying to cut down my customer contact time, and increase my tree contact time.

A button down shirt and non-work pants on bids makes it easy to indicate that I'm not digging into their cavities or RCX at a bid. I used to go with Arborwear and hi-viz work shirts to bids/ consults, trying to indicate safety and professionalism. No more. Dress for the job you want, not the one you have. Dress as a sales arborist. If I'm consulting for a fee, I don't think twice about starting a little RCX to show them what I mean about mulch and planting depth. They're paying by the hour at that point, for information.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #17
Two out of four people lately went for a consult. The other two seemed to be more of low-price shoppers.
 
It most likely weeds out bad customers. Lately, people who specify they want a FREE estimate, sometimes more than once in their request/message, I just don't even follow up on.
 
Bad customers??? The only bad customers are ones that don't pay.
I've never really understood the concept of undesirable clients, some are a PITA for sure but that's business isn't it?
 
matdand said:
I've had people ask me to walk their proprety and tell them what needs to be done, then call another guy and get a quote that's 10% less, using my exact quote...
Click to expand...

This happens all the time here in LA. It is basically THE reason we don't do free estimates. We write very detailed specs. We are basically giving them ALL the details needed to do the job themselves. We knew from day 1 that we were setting ourselves up for failure by being TOO detail oriented. By charge $150 for our consult and follow up quote, if they decide to hire their gardener to do the work- I don't care. You paid for the info. It's all yours.

If they hire us to do the work, we credit the $150 towards the cost of the work done assuming they hire us for >$500 worth of work. It's a $75 credit for less than that.

I don't have time to do free quotes.
 
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