gf beranek
Old Schooler
Steve, can you be more specific about your observations with the Grey Pine? I assume you are referring to the Digger Pine.
Hey?
Cutting question(idea from Gerry's DVD set)
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Steve, can you be more specific about your observations with the Grey Pine? I assume you are referring to the Digger Pine.
Hey?
CurSedVoyce
California Hillbilly
Yes Digger... The holding wood becomes more stringy (is the best I can describe it) in late winter to early spring. More chance of saw snatching and no release on the hinge. Summer and fall to early winter a more cooperative holding wood. Hinge releases better. I really need to get my terminology down better!
N
NeTree
Guest
Here, any pine (or fir) any time of year is unreliable up in the tree; the more horizontal the limb, the more unreliable. Stump cuts hold a hinge well in the summer; less so in the winter. Any pine felled in the winter will about detonate on impact.
Spruce and hemlock hinge well from the ground, and hemlock hinges quite well on horizontal limbs.
Poplar and ash hold hinges poorly, whether on the ground or in the tree. Oak, hickory, and elm, and maple hinge quite well in the tree and on the ground year-round.
Spruce and hemlock hinge well from the ground, and hemlock hinges quite well on horizontal limbs.
Poplar and ash hold hinges poorly, whether on the ground or in the tree. Oak, hickory, and elm, and maple hinge quite well in the tree and on the ground year-round.
gf beranek
Old Schooler
New england states wood characteristics noted, Eric. Anymore input will be appreciated and duly noted.
Thank you.
Going into the data base... by cracky...
Thank you.
Going into the data base... by cracky...
T
TREECYCLE
Guest
Its not what kind of branch, but WHERE you are cutting it that matters. Make your list and check your graphs before a cut. Meanwhile I will swing a limb to the side while I lay deep into the collar or drop it flat as I cut it out from the stem. Lotsa variables
K
klimbinfool
Guest
I find Grey Pine to be a pain any time of the year. However, from about mid spring to mid fall pitch runs heavy making the hinge wood incredibly strong. You will have to cut almost every fiber off or clean through before it realeses. This includes cutting through hinge wood a lot of times in the braching. Trunk wood you have to cut up very fine unless it's a heavy lean.
Late Fall to early spring fibers tend to shorten a tad because of less sap flow, but hinge wood is still incredibly strong and they exude pleanty of pitch no matter what time of year.
Did you know that Grey Pine nuts are comprised of 40%protien. Indians found this out many moons ago.
Thanks
Greg
Chico Cali.
Late Fall to early spring fibers tend to shorten a tad because of less sap flow, but hinge wood is still incredibly strong and they exude pleanty of pitch no matter what time of year.
Did you know that Grey Pine nuts are comprised of 40%protien. Indians found this out many moons ago.
Thanks
Greg
Chico Cali.
CurSedVoyce
California Hillbilly
My climate is just a hair dryer than Greg's.. But he pegged it really good for gray pine. They are truly tricky to swing a branch as the fibers hold too well.... So the branch can start to swing and then just plain flop and stay connected... Snap cuts are a real pain.. Not impossible.. but... Now as far as a saving grace.. Since the hinge wood often can stay connected... You can redirect and finish the cut through the fibers........... A friggen 300 # limb can just hang there on fibers while you work... It is some seriously stringy stuff..
K
klimbinfool
Guest
lol...you got that right..
You know Jer I was thinking about this. maybe instead of shooting all over the board we should just start with the beginning of the alphabet.
Greg
You know Jer I was thinking about this. maybe instead of shooting all over the board we should just start with the beginning of the alphabet.
Greg
treesandsurf
Treehouser
Sounds like this could be a great resource. I was thinking at one time of starting a thread to see each person's five most commonly encountered trees. I know I have five trees that I seem to work on much more than the many different species found here in Hawaii.
If that list was compiled it could be a starting point for elaborating on wood properties. I've had a dream of one day compiling a guide for working with tropical tree species for the practicing arborist... anyway just some thoughts.
jp
If that list was compiled it could be a starting point for elaborating on wood properties. I've had a dream of one day compiling a guide for working with tropical tree species for the practicing arborist... anyway just some thoughts.
jp
gf beranek
Old Schooler
Sounds like this could be a great resource. I was thinking at one time of starting a thread to see each person's five most commonly encountered trees. I know I have five trees that I seem to work on much more than the many different species found here in Hawaii.
If that list was compiled it could be a starting point for elaborating on wood properties. I've had a dream of one day compiling a guide for working with tropical tree species for the practicing arborist... anyway just some thoughts.
jp
John, that's what this is all about. While it sounds unstructured at the current time all this input can be edited and categorized by species, region and seasonal characteristics.
Some peoples descriptions are going to be very vague while descriptions from others will be more encompassing. But each person may have a point or observation that others leave out.
There's a lot of oaks out there, but we know they all have different properties. If we get confirmed and identical observations from a number of different people about a particular species of Oak then you can just about take it to the bank that there is some accurate info to pass on.
So far just from what Greg and Steve mentioned about Grey Pine (digger) I can relate to from the instances I've worked with it.. And it's probably one of the most stringy and resilient wood fibers of the pines. And on the other end of the spectrum you have redwood limbs that can explode off the cut from just a scratch of the handsaw.
FJR
Treehouser
John, I think your idea is a great one. Here are a few common trees in my area and some of their characteristics.
Burr Oak
This tree seems to set the standard here. While understanding no tree is perfect, this tree has many more good qualities than bad. This may be the longest living species in our area living upwards of 200+. Great shade tree with very little storm damage, the fibers are incredibly strong. Great hinging characteristics. Snap cuts can be difficult on large long limbs. Even with an undercut as deep as possible and a sharp chain, the limb will want to hinge instead of falling straight down. Butch had previously mentioned side cuts as well as undercutting, this would be a great species to use that technique. One thing to mention, the wood gets much harder to cut through when it is dead, more so than other species around here. It feels like you are trying to cut through a rock.
Silver Maple
Very fast growing tree. Very weak wooded tree and very prone to storm damage. They get to be very large around here, maybe maxing out around 90ft. with an even larger spread. I know, I know, that would be considered a short tree out west
. Like I said the limbs are light and brittle and easy to snap cut. When felling, the tree does have decent hinge qualities. As far as removing trees that are still alive, this is the second most most common around here.
Siberian Elm
I don't even know where to start with this tree. Micheal Dirr calls this one of the worlds worst trees. Its is everywhere around here, it is like the cockroach of trees. It is the most commonly removed living tree here. It is moderately fast growing with extremely weak branch unions. This tree produces deadwood like crazy. Every time you turn your head something else dies. VERY prone to storm damage. Almost all of the trees you see around here have many damaged limbs in them, many of the limbs are just snapped in half. I remember driving though Oklahoma and seeing the very same thing. Very easy to snap cut. Don't try swinging any limbs with a directional cut, it's just going to fall straight down... Felling is still surprisingly ok though, not great.... just ok. The tree is just full of Japanese Beetles too.
I am going to add more info and more trees when I have more time. If you have any suggestions on what info should be added on each tree please share. I did this fairly fast so I am sure I didn't cover everything.
Burr Oak
This tree seems to set the standard here. While understanding no tree is perfect, this tree has many more good qualities than bad. This may be the longest living species in our area living upwards of 200+. Great shade tree with very little storm damage, the fibers are incredibly strong. Great hinging characteristics. Snap cuts can be difficult on large long limbs. Even with an undercut as deep as possible and a sharp chain, the limb will want to hinge instead of falling straight down. Butch had previously mentioned side cuts as well as undercutting, this would be a great species to use that technique. One thing to mention, the wood gets much harder to cut through when it is dead, more so than other species around here. It feels like you are trying to cut through a rock.
Silver Maple
Very fast growing tree. Very weak wooded tree and very prone to storm damage. They get to be very large around here, maybe maxing out around 90ft. with an even larger spread. I know, I know, that would be considered a short tree out west
. Like I said the limbs are light and brittle and easy to snap cut. When felling, the tree does have decent hinge qualities. As far as removing trees that are still alive, this is the second most most common around here.Siberian Elm
I don't even know where to start with this tree. Micheal Dirr calls this one of the worlds worst trees. Its is everywhere around here, it is like the cockroach of trees. It is the most commonly removed living tree here. It is moderately fast growing with extremely weak branch unions. This tree produces deadwood like crazy. Every time you turn your head something else dies. VERY prone to storm damage. Almost all of the trees you see around here have many damaged limbs in them, many of the limbs are just snapped in half. I remember driving though Oklahoma and seeing the very same thing. Very easy to snap cut. Don't try swinging any limbs with a directional cut, it's just going to fall straight down... Felling is still surprisingly ok though, not great.... just ok. The tree is just full of Japanese Beetles too.
I am going to add more info and more trees when I have more time. If you have any suggestions on what info should be added on each tree please share. I did this fairly fast so I am sure I didn't cover everything.
G
Gord
Guest
For species that have stringy wood, to make a limb pop off and fall flat it's best to cut both sides and the bottom, then the top. You can get almost any limb to drop cleanly if you cut three sides before cutting fast from the top.
E
edenarb
Guest
Very good thread 
Are you just going to look at the properties of diff trees or also consider factors such as heartwood/softwood/partial decay and the effect these have on cuts?
Could be probably be covered generally to a degree.
Once you understand how a species of tree reacts when cut I beelieve it is vitally important to understand the traits of decay. A lot of trees we take down will be suffering some form of die back, so within the same climb/dismantal you can go from exploding as soon as the saw is started to an overlap cut hanginig on for grim death, etc, etc.
Decay causes manny issues for us from climbing to cutting with everything in between, its a steep (not to mention dangerous) learning curve for those lacking experience.
Just a thought.
Are you just going to look at the properties of diff trees or also consider factors such as heartwood/softwood/partial decay and the effect these have on cuts?
Could be probably be covered generally to a degree.
Once you understand how a species of tree reacts when cut I beelieve it is vitally important to understand the traits of decay. A lot of trees we take down will be suffering some form of die back, so within the same climb/dismantal you can go from exploding as soon as the saw is started to an overlap cut hanginig on for grim death, etc, etc.
Decay causes manny issues for us from climbing to cutting with everything in between, its a steep (not to mention dangerous) learning curve for those lacking experience.
Just a thought.
gf beranek
Old Schooler
No reason not to include any observations about a tree one understands well enough to share with others. All such information can fit into a species category as well.
Here, to keep it simple, if a person has an observation to share it would be best to keep the information one species at a time.
Greg started a thread about "summer limb drop" and a number of people started naming species of trees in which the phenomena is most common to in their area. It's information like this that can all be added to a larger data base of species characteristics.
So It appears there would either have to be a lot of individual searching the threads to gather this info, or have people sit down and really write what they know for submission. Which the latter would be the most un-likey it seems.
There's stumbling blocks for sure, but good info is out there. It just has to be gathered up and categorized.
Here, to keep it simple, if a person has an observation to share it would be best to keep the information one species at a time.
Greg started a thread about "summer limb drop" and a number of people started naming species of trees in which the phenomena is most common to in their area. It's information like this that can all be added to a larger data base of species characteristics.
So It appears there would either have to be a lot of individual searching the threads to gather this info, or have people sit down and really write what they know for submission. Which the latter would be the most un-likey it seems.
There's stumbling blocks for sure, but good info is out there. It just has to be gathered up and categorized.
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