Crane removal presentation

[top hopper]

This is what I was hoping to get at. Different people use different methods. No one method is wrong, but methods vary from place to place.

how bout when ya have to use 2 slings to get the pick centered, got to use a shackle to attach it all together

I just choke both slings on the limb where I want them, and drop each sling onto the hook. No shackle needed.

And I always remove the slings from the hook. Usually I have the slings for next pik slung and ready to hook before the previous slings come back on the hook. Then I just pull the previous slings off, drop the current ones on, either make the cut or get outta the way for the cut, and start slinging the next pik before those slings comeback. Round and round.
And I usually use 25 foot slings so they can be hooked to the ball from relatively close to the cutting position.

Does any of that make sense?

 

[sotc]

Yes, very efficient, I like effecient!
Sometimes we use 8' or 12' or 20' or 25'. This is a great thread idea

 

[Paul B]

...There's no riding the crane here unless in a manbasket with no load attached...

I took our discussion with that fellow the other day differently. it made it sound to me that if you were attached to the crane (IE the boom) but not part of the ball / lift system, it was do-able, perhaps slightly in the grey area though.

 

[rumination]

As someone who just did his first crane removal today, with no prior experience of crane work and no instruction: all I can say is yes yes yes to all of the above suggestions and advice.

John, if you get this together into a power point presentation I would love to get a copy of it.

 

[MasterBlaster]

Good thread!

The first thing I do on a crane job is confiscate the crane operator's cell phone.

 

[woodworkingboy]

Always use a shackle with cable here, unless a light limb pick, where a cable without a shackle, sling, or a single or double cable with locking hooks will suffice.

With heavier cable, especially when slinging it around a tree, having one end already attached to the hook, and fastening with the shackle, makes it quicker and easier, my experience tells me. Generally I'll take two turns around the trunk before hooking under the shackle pin.

Sometimes being able to not have to lower the hook all the way to where you are to unfasten the cable, makes for a smoother operation, as opposed to having to bring the hook all the way through a thick conifer crown.

 

[squisher]

I took our discussion with that fellow the other day differently. it made it sound to me that if you were attached to the crane (IE the boom) but not part of the ball / lift system, it was do-able, perhaps slightly in the grey area though.

He was describing doing that only with a variance from WCB(that had to be applied for) if the tree was to dangerous to climb.

 

[OTGBOSTON]

John, as painfual as it may be, get in touch with Boston Bull at the buzz. Jim can be a pain in the ass and has rubbed a lot of people the wrong way...BUT his boss is a great guy and will chat for hours with you if you let him. They run two 60ton cranes and recently bought a 120ton. To call these guys crane geeks would be an extreme understatement. My eyes glaze over after about 2mins of listening them talk about his special tires and suspensions...

 

[MasterBlaster]

Hahahaha.

 

[top hopper]

I'll pass on contacting BB Greg. I know he has much experience, but Ive read his posts about crane work and truthfully he has no modesty IMO. He also thinks tying into a shackle placed in the hook is not tying into the hook. Which I disagree with. Ive bumped heads with too many crane know-it-alls over at TB, which is why I chose to only post this here. So far, everyone has given excellent feedback, and not one person has claimed to be the holy grail about cranework. People here are modest, and even guys with alot of experience are willing to learn from others. That just doesnt happen at TB, and BB is one of those types of guys.

 

[top hopper]

Good thread!

The first thing I do on a crane job is confiscate the crane operator's cell phone.

Good idea in some cases. But here the outfit we use, always sends an oiler with the operator because 80% of the time we are making blind picks. And the oiler and operator communicate via Nextel from backyard to frontyard. In otherwords, when picking blind and using an oiler, a cell phone is our eyes.

But one of my peeves is to look down at a lone operator and see him chatting away, all the while the climber needs his FULL attention.

 

[MasterBlaster]

But one of my peeves is to look down at a lone operator and see him chatting away, all the while the climber needs his FULL attention.

Thank you! Hence my post.

 

[gf beranek]

It's all good advise. Condensed and concise. My own crane experience wouldn't fit in a thimble. Only done a few, but the theories and wisdom of crane removals is right in there with all rigging in the tree. It's angles and dangles and knowing the forces you're dealing with.

You actually going to do a powerpoint presentation on this, John? If you do I would like one please.

 

[top hopper]

Id like to put one together as I think alot of people would be interested in one. Id really like to take my sweet time with it and cover ALL the bases.

Which brings up another subject Gerry. You are coming to MN in February for our MSA winter workshop in Rochester correct?
Im curious what it would take to get you to come a couple days early or possibly stay a couple of days later.
We have a very unique crane job coming that we must schedule at the coldest time of year and were looking at tentatively Jan or Feb. I could probably convince our scheduler to coordinate with your trip up here if you might be interested in watching and possibly doing a little filming.

I would need to know what type of accommodations and compensation you would like, that is if you would be interested?
Pm me or email me at jsirbas@msn.com if you would like. I can give you more information about the job to see if that may tickle your fancy?

I'll throw this out right now- it involves a 165 ton hydro crane, a 38 ton jib crane, a 58" diameter (decayed, and rotten) Cottonwood tree, a frozen lake, temperatures around zero degrees, lots of hot coffee, and nerves of steel!
Sounds fun eh?

 

[Mr. Sir]

Sounds like an interesting job. I'm guessing you'll have the cranes on the ice, one for the tree and one for the climber? I hope you get some good video of that.

 

[gf beranek]

John, to make your offer work would require the workshop chair, Jay Maier, to schedule the itinerary for my travels around it. And I don't know if he has even made the reservations for the workshop yet. I'll pm you his number,,, but with the weather in Feb, in MN, it is a gamble to set any date that far in advance for a big removal. Though I don't live in MN and you guys may see it as just another day of work. -20 degrees

It does sound intriguing.

 

[woodworkingboy]

It sounds like a memorable job. It would be cool if Tanya Harding could entertain by skating out the coffee to the workers

 

[top hopper]

Cool. Got your PM Gerry! We'll see if its possible to pull this off logistically. Sounds like a long shot, but I'll look into it and be in touch.

Ok- Ive officially derailed my own thread. Now back to the original topic. Keep the idears coming please folks!

NoBivy? What say you?

 

[gf beranek]

Reg, Coates, in the UK, has good advise to offer novices doing their first crane removals. Of which most advise has already been highlighted by members here.

One bit of advise from Reg that struck me as being very important and yet often taken for granted was the fact that he said, "First, talk with crane operator and discuss with him the order of picks, or the sequence in which they will be made, and the reach and lift capabilities from where the crane will be set."

This simple and common wisdom of understanding between the climber and the crane operator is very fundamental.

 

[gf beranek]

a note

Reg, Coates, in the UK, has good advise to offer novices doing their first crane removals. Of which most advise has already been highlighted by members here.

One bit of advise from Reg that struck me as being very important and yet often taken for granted was the fact that he said, "First, talk with the crane operator and discuss with him the order of picks, or the sequence in which they will be made, and the reach and lift capabilities from where the crane will be set."

This simple and common wisdom of understanding between the climber and the crane operator is very fundamental.

 

[gf beranek]

What happened, Butch? I just tried to correct a mis spell

 

[rumination]

One bit of advise from Reg that struck me as being very important and yet often taken for granted was the fact that he said, "First, talk with crane operator and discuss with him the order of picks, or the sequence in which they will be made, and the reach and lift capabilities from where the crane will be set."

This simple and common wisdom of understanding between the climber and the crane operator is very fundamental.

That's a great bit of advice, I'm sure. Easier said than done when the crane operator only speaks Cantonese, though! I did, thankfully, manage to get hand signals sorted out before we got started.

 

[gf beranek]

Cantonese! Boy that would throw a wrench in the gearbox. I don't know if I would even start a job if I couldn't communicate with the operator of the crane.

 

[woodworkingboy]

Via the discussion, (Japanese of you please) it's also good to be clear on which direction the operator will want to be taking the pick, if not self explanatory with a known individual. I guess that this falls into the "cuts" that was already mentioned, and a smooth sequence of the cutting matching with the crane movement, makes for a quick and efficient operation. It is possible to get a saw stuck in a tree during a crane pick.

Cutting at chest height or above lets you duck under the movement after the wood detaches.

 

[gf beranek]

Does anybody remember that youtube video in the UK of the heli-picks where the climbers were ducking to miss getting wacked by the picks.

In the video they were trying to prove it could be done, but to me it more clearly showed that the method needed more refinement to make it a safe alternative. Some pretty hairy moments for the climber in it.