City licensing

[sotc]

Same here Steve, the only thing tree related on my entire exam was which catagory of liscence I needed. I talked to the CCB at the hom show yesterday and they couln't come up with a good reason why we are under the CCB instead of LCB. I'm not legal to do new tree installations but I am allowed to build a house:roll:

 

[Old Monkey]

Darin, I'm not opposed to standards. I am opposed to more taxes and red tape which does nothing to address existing problems. Why do you assume that more taxes and bigger government equals higher standards?

Well, I have been to countries with no standards and seen the result. I can handle some licensing and regulations.

 

[SkwerI]

But you didn't answer the question. You are completely ignoring the blatently obvious point everybody is trying to tell you. You would make an excellent politician. If it moves, tax it. :roll:

 

[sotc]

The point behind licensing should be to up the industry standard, not to tax people more

 

[SkwerI]

But Darin doesn't want better standards, he just wants to pay more taxes for a piece of paper. And he wants everybody else to pay as well.

WTF does 'other countries' have to do with city licenses?

 

[CurSedVoyce]

That is my biggest beef with CA ... They want a contractors license if you make over $500.00 per job per client per year. As a kid... I mowed lawns to make money, fixed sprinklers... odd jobs.. Lets get real.. You can't mow a guys lawn every week for less than $500.00 per year.. I feel they should have upped the minimum amount to 1000 or 1500...
When they tighten regulations to up taxes or secure taxes, it really hurts start up businesses that feed the majority of the revenue and economy in this nation.. Biting the hand that feeds them IMHO

 

[Old Monkey]

Not every regulation is bad and not everyone is good. In general, I think rules and regulations are good. I do not see it as just another tax on business Brian so I haven't commented about raising taxes on folks. Arguing your premise gives it a validation I do not wish to confer upon it.

I grew up in Marin County just North of San Francisco and was there for the birth of mountain biking on the slopes of Mount Tamalpais. Guys used to take heavy bicycles in a pick up to the top of the mountain and come barreling down until someone got the bright idea to build lighter bikes with gears. Now, the mountain where it all started has rules, restrictions and and speed limit. California has more regulation than a lot of places because it has more people. The more folks you have the more rules of behavior you need. If a few people are riding down single tracked trails at high speeds, so be it, but when you have hordes of cyclists on the mountain every day you need confine them to the fire roads and give them speed limits.

 

[Stumper]

The worst tree work in my area is done by licensed tree care providers. The best work is also done by a licensed guy. The license has no bearing on the standards actually employed and manifested.
I've lived on 3 continents and seen firsthand the effect of no regulations or enforcement...and I say "Bring it on!". The absence of regulatory bureaucracy does NOT equate to a complete lack of standards. You can get work done to whatever standard you are willing to accept or are able to pay for.

 

[SkwerI]

Darin, changing the topic doesn't add any validity to your point of view. We were discussing the addition of city occupational license requirements for tree services already licensed by the county and state. A money grab by cities is all, it has nothing to do with 'standards'. There is no correlation between city license requirements and 'standards'.

Sorry, but I think you lose this one unless you want to try and change the topic again.

 

[Old Monkey]

Giving an analogy is not changing the topic Brian. I have been talking generally about regulation, including contractors licensing and city licenses. The mountain bike analogy was merely to point out that regulation has a lot to do with numbers of people doing a particular thing. If you live in a small town where you would not be able to survive being a charlatan because everyone would know, regulation isn't very necessary. If you live in a major urban area, you need professional licensing.

Now ISA certs or city licenses to not keep folks from doing bad work, but it is a start. Our city only charges $40 which is hardly a money grab and probably just covers their expense of doing the program. They have taken folks off the list because of bad work that they have done.

 

[treelooker]

...regulation has a lot to do with numbers of people doing a particular thing. If you live in a small town where you would not be able to survive being a charlatan because everyone would know, regulation isn't very necessary. If you live in a major urban area, you need professional licensing.

Now ISA certs or city licenses to not keep folks from doing bad work, but it is a start. Our city only charges $40 which is hardly a money grab and probably just covers their expense of doing the program. They have taken folks off the list because of bad work that they have done.

Hang in there, Darin! Your objective look is far more valuable than kneejerk anti-gummint rant.

 

[SkwerI]

So tell me how many licenses are too many? Why is one more license a good thing for somebody who already has three? If you think the license provides an opportunity for improving the industry, why not push for stricter standards for the existing county licenses instead? Why create another layer when the existing layers aren't effective?

 

[sotc]

The city liscences here are strictly a tax, period. You pay money to work in an area, they don't care about anything else

 

[Old Monkey]

Perhaps in your area Willie.

 

[MasterBlaster]

It cost 25 bucks a day to work across the river, in Pineville. That amazes me that they can get away with doing that. We work over there as little as possible.

 

[NeTree]

I'm with Skwerl.

 

[Frans]

I am both with Darin, and Skwerl on this.

Darin understands that when left to their own devices, people will work their hardest to do the very minimum, and hurt whomever is in the way. Skwerl makes the valid point that these same types of people (governments) are the ones striving daily to propagate their industry (the government) by continually adding laws and regulations.

I like Darin's optimism in the human race, and I like Skwerl's independence.
Both valuable if not essential to make our world work IMO.



-not that any of this really contributes to this conversation, but what the hay, can't hurt.

 

[Jonseredbred]

Darin understands that when left to their own devices, people will work their hardest to do the very minimum, and hurt whomever is in the way.

I like Darin's optimism in the human race,

.

 

[SkwerI]

No Andrew. People are scum, only Government is great. :what:

 

[Old Monkey]

Civilization requires people to come together under a common set of rules. The core concept has been very successful. The question is to what degree do wee need to regulate human actions for the betterment of the group. Some folks say less some folks say more. There is no perfect balance of freedom versus rules and never has been.

 

[Frans]

Darin, would you say the government these days has gotten more powerful than is helpful?

I do, reminds me of history class learning about the feudal system.

 

[Old Monkey]

In some areas yes in other areas no. I think that there are a lot of government agencies that are underfunded and understaffed and others that maybe don't serve a purpose anymore.

 

[Wagnaw]

Licensing in places like maryland has definitely got a little out of hand, but I think many of the basis for many regulations could be avoided if other agencies were stronger.

I for instance wish the EPA, CDC, and Forest Service were much larger and more powerful. I think a lot of abuses by private industry and pollution problems could have been avoided. I think the CDC is separate from the gov't though....

 

[treelooker]

Darin understands that when left to their own devices, people will work their hardest to do the very minimum, and hurt whomever is in the way. Skwerl makes the valid point that these same types of people (governments) are the ones striving daily to propagate their industry (the government) by continually adding laws and regulations.

I like Darin's optimism in the human race, and I like Skwerl's independence.
Both valuable if not essential to make our world work IMO.

Dam snarf that was hugely perceptive; looking at this madness from both sides now, a latter-day Joni Mitchell--er, make that Johnny.

 

[Frans]

What happened to shanay o'connor? Oh wait, she hates the catholic church, never mind