Chipper HELP! PLEASE!

[ianwhite]

Look on the top of the engine right by the #1 injector for the coolant sensor.

Thank you very much

 

[PCTREE]

Ian I had that chipper long enough to realize I would rather quit tree work than use it! I replaced it very quickly so never worked on it, however I did realize with all the computer shit on it it would be a PIA to work on. My input just stems from gut feeling, Very cold and flashing light with "water" mentioned made me think of a fuel restriction. Good luck with it!! I just figured out how to fix my crane which was a complete bitch! About 2 weeks of BS all to find a stuck open pressure relief valve

 

[ianwhite]

Ian I had that chipper long enough to realize I would rather quit tree work than use it! I replaced it very quickly so never worked on it, however I did realize with all the computer shit on it it would be a PIA to work on. My input just stems from gut feeling, Very cold and flashing light with "water" mentioned made me think of a fuel restriction. Good luck with it!! I just figured out how to fix my crane which was a complete bitch! About 2 weeks of BS all to find a stuck open pressure relief valve

Ah hell.... Sounds like some of my many various wrench turning endeavors.... Haha. Well.... Good thing is it's fixed, and now you know. Bet that same, or even comparable, mistakes don't happen to you like that again.

Regarding the bc1400's... I've not really ever heard much good. However, I got lucky. I got it for super cheap. Put a bit into it initially, but not too much. 1 major catastrophic event (fuel injection pump failure) and that really sucked. Stressful for sure. Not sure I can blame that on the machine. Other than that, I haven't had many troubles yet. That's not to say that there won't be multiple huge issues coming up soon. Sure hope not. From what I've heard, I could never feel good about recommending one. Pretty sure I just got real lucky.

 

[candoarms]

Ianwhite,

I have some experience with diesel engines. I found something in your original post that could be your problem.

Diesel engines have a fuel valve on them. This is the only way to shut down a diesel, as they don't run on spark. Shutting off the fuel flow is the only way to shut them down.

A faulty fuel shut-off solenoid will do exactly as you describe. There are actually two coils in the solenoid valve. Both coils are located in the same coil housing. One coil (the larger of the two) is designed to pull the valve open when the ignition switch is in the starting position. The other coil (the smaller of the two) is designed to hold the valve open when the switch is moved to the run position.

More than likely you have a faulty fuel solenoid coil. When the coil gets hot, the copper windings expand in size and you'll have an open condition. This will cause the valve to close...killing the engine. As the coil cools and shrinks, the windings will again make contact, allowing for proper solenoid operation, until hot again.

This could be a very easy and cheap fix. Simply switch out the coil on top of the fuel solenoid. There is a nut holding the coil on the solenoid stem. There is also an electrical connector, probably with three wires in it. It takes five minutes to replace, depending on accessibility.

Hope this helps.

Joel

 

[ianwhite]

Ianwhite,

I have some experience with diesel engines. I found something in your original post that could be your problem.

Diesel engines have a fuel valve on them. This is the only way to shut down a diesel, as they don't run on spark. Shutting off the fuel flow is the only way to shut them down.

A faulty fuel shut-off solenoid will do exactly as you describe. There are actually two coils in the solenoid valve. Both coils are located in the same coil housing. One coil (the larger of the two) is designed to pull the valve open when the ignition switch is in the starting position. The other coil (the smaller of the two) is designed to hold the valve open when the switch is moved to the run position.

More than likely you have a faulty fuel solenoid coil. When the coil gets hot, the copper windings expand in size and you'll have an open condition. This will cause the valve to close...killing the engine. As the coil cools and shrinks, the windings will again make contact, allowing for proper solenoid operation, until hot again.

This could be a very easy and cheap fix. Simply switch out the coil on top of the fuel solenoid. There is a nut holding the coil on the solenoid stem. There is also an electrical connector, probably with three wires in it. It takes five minutes to replace, depending on accessibility.

Hope this helps.

Joel

Awesome. Thanks man! Really appreciate the thoughtful and well put info!

Will certainly look into that as well.

Really appreciate the help.

Thanks to everyone so far.

I'll certainly update this as I go/when we get it figured out in the hopes that this thread may possibly help the next poor guy in my situation.

 

[candoarms]

Ianwhite,

These intermittent electrical problems are very hard to find when troubleshooting with an electrical test meter, due to the fact that things move when heated and cooled. If you were to test the coil while on the bench, it may test out just fine. Apply some heat to it.....suddenly it fails the test.

If you remove the solenoid coil and attempt to test it, you'll likely find that it's just fine. From experience, this is not the case. However, DO NOT throw the old solenoid coil away just yet. After placing the new one on, test the chipper's engine to make sure that it remains running. If it does, you can now toss the old coil in the trash. You don't want it anywhere around, to be possibly confused with being a good spare part.

In your case, it sounds as though the run coil has a broken wire in it. The start coil seems to work just fine. Unfortunately, both coils are contained in the same housing, so it is not possible to replace just one. Even so, the coil is not terribly expensive. It's nothing more than a very thin copper wire, wound around a plastic insert. There are about 400 turns around the tube. Any one of those turns could have a small crack in it.

The reason for the two separate coils is easy to understand. The start coil needs a good strong pull in order to open the valve. For this reason it contains many more wraps. This coil is really nothing more than an electromagnet. These wraps of wire create a lot of heat. The fuel valve, itself, serves as a heat sink to prevent the coil from burning up. If power is applied for very long when removed from the fuel solenoid, it will begin smoking very quickly.......and will eventually catch fire.

Since less power is required to hold the valve open, a smaller coil can be used for this purpose. The smaller coil, with fewer wraps, generates much less heat and will prevent the coil from burning up when in the run position.

Hope this helps.

Joel

 

[FireFighterZero]

Only thing worse than an intermittent, is an intermittent intermittent.

Does it still shut off in the heat?

How cold was it when you said it got cold? 911 isnt really designed to be a "preventive" measure. It is designed to get you going again after a gel up. Run regular white bottle Power Service or Stanadyne to prevent gelling.

Does this machine have circuitry like a Murphy switch? Are they supposed to shut down automatically when a high/low situation is encountered?

The bleeding vibration from these units must be hell on circuits.

What engine is in these things?

 

[ianwhite]

Ya intermittent electrical issues are probably my least favorite mechanical issue to deal with.

Jim, it was hanging around 15 or low 20's temp wise. I shouldn't have said that I put "911" in there. The same company makes an anti-gelling additive that we pretreat all our diesel with in the winter, then we just keep the actual "911" handy in the trucks for emergencies.

The machine does in fact have safeties set up so it will shut down in a "high/low" situation. I pulled the coolant temp sensor yesterday and that may have very well been the issue. One of the posts had some things that could justifiably be seen as structural concerns.

I believe the vibration to be a large part of why this machine has so many issues.

Jim it has a 122 horse Cat in it. Or perkapillar depending on who you're talking to.

Joel, thanks for the electrical lesson. Wiring is certainly my weakest discipline when it comes to fixing stuff.

Thanks for all the help from everyone.

Will continue to address other ideas shared as time allows and let you guys know what we end up figuring out.

Thanks everyone!

 

[Raj]

FWIW in my electric motor shop all crimped/spliced/permanent repairs to lugs and connectors and wires are soldered. I advise that to all my customers to do as well. Electrics will last much longer and I don't get return repair work.

 

[ianwhite]

FWIW in my electric motor shop all crimped/spliced/permanent repairs to lugs and connectors and wires are soldered. I advise that to all my customers to do as well. Electrics will last much longer and I don't get return repair work.

Much appreciated. You're certainly far more knowledgeable in the matter than me.

Thanks!

 

[ianwhite]

Well, I pulled the coolant temp sensor. Tested bad regarding ohms. Replaced that. Have yet to run it much. I haven't put it under much of a load. Hoping that does it. Just thought I'd fill everyone in, and say thanks so much to everyone who contributed. One of the many reasons this place is pretty awesome. Sure do appreciate everyone's help, and I'll update again when we figure out if that did the trick.

Thanks everyone!

 

[PCTREE]

thanks for the feedback, that way we all learn from your misfortune. I like that better than the way I usually learn

 

[squisher]

Good luck with it.

 

[Al Smith]

Late to the party but a general comment .More times than not when dealing with automotive type circuits the problem can be traced to poor terminal connections .Usually it's 12 volts and with the vibrations etc they get loose, slightly corrode etc .Just a general nuisance to find .

 

[ianwhite]

Thanks for the info Al. Appreciate it.

FWIW as an update, it ran great today. Big pieces of pine and no issues. Didn't shut itself off a single time. Hope things stay that way. Could use a break from shit breaking.

Thanks again to everyone who helped out.

 

[candoarms]

Good to hear that you got the old girl running.

Joel

 

[ianwhite]

Good to hear that you got the old girl running.

Joel

Thanks. Definitely don't want to get ahead of myself, but so far it's been running great.

Brief synopsis in case anyone else is ever searching for solution to same situation.

Vermeer BC1400, Intermittently shutting itself off. Ran fine, did not miss...Just seemingly randomly shut itself off while operating. After sitting for a while, it would run for short periods (approx. 5 min.). Would not start and run for long immediately after cutting itself off.

"OIL/WATER OK" light would not be on when it would only run for just a quick minute. When light was on it'd run for another 5 minutes or so.

Solution seems to be replacing coolant temp sensor/switch. It's located right behind the thermostat. 2 wires running to it. 1 black, and one red if I remember correctly.

It's a bit tight, but patience and a 7/8 wrench will get it off after removing wiring.

Pull part and should say "Perkins" on it. Will also have a #.

Part can be obtained from Vermeer for approx $100+. Can be found online, by referencing part #, for quite a bit less.

Hopefully that clarifies, summarizes, and wraps this all up.

Sincere gratitude to everyone that contributed.

 

[Merle Nelson]

Great to hear. Even though I don't have the same chipper it gives good perspective.

 

[ianwhite]

Great to hear. Even though I don't have the same chipper it gives good perspective.

Glad that it came across right. Wanted to get something down in writing kinda simplified and summarized. Wrote it quick, so I'm glad it get's the point across.

Most will obviously know this, but for the guy who's just getting into working on equipment....Obviously need to plan to drain coolant to level below sensor. Thought that might be worth mentioning in case someone runs across this years from now. Might save somebody the hassle of cleaning up coolant, or worst case killing a pet....

 

[SouthSoundTree-]