changes

The problem is the cost of doing business has been steadily going up for years but our rates haven't. Most folks are dropping prices as there is less work. The rich are lining their pockets with our labour but IMO there has to be a limit to this, when like Dave we all come to the conclusion that its not worth it anymore as I am seeing again and again not just in the tree industry but in all walks of life there will be a breakdown. Maybe not maybe we will all have to sell our houses and work for big co.s just for rent......

Kinda like I believe it was Jefferson said "if we allow a central bank all our grandchildren will become homeless"

The Federal Reserve is a central bank.
 
Skwerl said:
These two statements don't jive. Recently I've noticed that I'm grossing more than ever but at the end of the month I'm not gaining any ground. Seems like at least 3 days per week I have a major expense that eats up the day's profits. So my current focus is on cutting expenses and minimizing expenditures. I'm not in business to simply churn dollars.
Click to expand...

Sure they do. Running a 2 man crew doesn't make much money, running 2 or 3 crews can. I am training a guy in pest control and bidding to help me when I am slammed, I am working on raising prices even higher, cultivating work with a local cable company, joining several networking groups etc. I certainly don't want to end up working for someone else again but if all this falls through I may just cream some work and focus on consulting more. Its worth a shot imo
 
Skwerl said:
These two statements don't jive. Recently I've noticed that I'm grossing more than ever but at the end of the month I'm not gaining any ground. Seems like at least 3 days per week I have a major expense that eats up the day's profits. So my current focus is on cutting expenses and minimizing expenditures. I'm not in business to simply churn dollars.
Click to expand...

True that!!! Throughout life, I've tried live by the KISS principle. FWIW: If you get over-whelmed, dial it back 'til it becomes fun again. ;)

if_it_aint_fun_dont_do_it_tshirt-p235350993399761895zvfrq_400.jpg


Life's short. :)
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #29
you know, as i try to cut back, and raise prices, i dont get the jobs now because im a bit more $
one of the major issues is
comps billing and deposit system is changing and its new system will basically cost me close to 3 grand a month whether i work a crew or not...its based on the previous years payroll, divided by 12 months, pro rated or altered at the end of the 1st 6 months, and no other carriers except state fund want high climbing tree climbers on their doles
i did a big state job in 09, didnt get payed until just b4 i got hurt in 2010, and since my expenses were in 09, the feds nailed me with 7 grand in extra taxes....that ive been paying, well i missed 1 month when it rained, over 6oo bucks in penalties, well they siezed my tax returns, and we made a payment, well apparently we did 2 days too soon, so it wasnt credited to the current month, and here are the penalties again, im actuallly selling a chipper to pay the feds...so they wont keep taking an extra 600 bucks from me

i see the cycles of the bills and taxes and fees, and im a slave to them, i have the oppurtunity to break the cycle, and must

i fear i will hurt someone, ( people love to come over and complain about their neighbors tree work to me for some reason) or that all the stress of bills, life and everything else will help push me over the edge.

i think getting out of the ownership and day to day operations point will greatly reduce my stress level.ive already made it to the point of not wasting time doing bids, and only doing the jobs people want me to do, but im too old , and the trees here are too big for me to try and do a 1 man band scene on you have to have a crew,

one of the factors that makes me look elsewhere is housing prices, i cant afford a knock down here, because due to the amount of weed you can legally grow here, the housing market is kept inflated, prices for rentals and for purchases keep going up, because someone can grow dope in em for a couple seasons, make their money, default and run.

im gonna go somewhere put some change down, and work me a easier on the body and mind job, that allows me time with the family....instead of running in circles to get another job, id love to do 1 more year, but its not in the cards,

youre feedbacxk is great and insightfull and i see im not alone, i believe it is time to reinvent myself as something other than the low price tree guy
thanks again for the replies fam
 
Whatever you decide to do Dave I'm sure you'll do OK . At 36 you have lots of time to readjust.

Some guys were born to get along and lead people, others like myself ...not so good. With my one man outfit I put in my earplugs, concentrate and get the work done. The beauty of running your own tree service is the flexability of getting paid, alot of cash paid jobs . I once had one customer pay me $3500 in $20 bills. Talk about a PIA counting that out, ha ha.

Every region has its disadvantages, in mine I'm paying over $5 US a gallon for diesel fuel.
I can see your tall timber being a disavantage for your outfit. Maybe you should partner up with a timberfaller and get rid of the hired climbers.

I gotta say Jack made one of the best comments here , "If it ain't fun don't do it...life is short" Even at 36.
 
People who stick with their trade can eventually scale back a little and get into consulting or training. I recently received an opportunity to work part time for a national arborist training company as a trainer to teach on chainsaws and falling.

I'm actually quite excited about it, great way to get out have some fun and meet new tree folk. I'm taking my train the trainer course this fall.
 
The overall emphasis in society today doesn't seem conducive to doing good work. It once was different. Unless the customer base is the wealthy, people want cheaper and faster, some solution they can get from pressing on their cell phone. The government is a machine that has no compassion, best to stay out of it's way wherever possible.
 
The US government hounded me for taxes that I wasn't required to pay, and it took a couple years to sort it out, enduring their very frequent threatening letters to my wife and myself. I got it sorted out and they started in doing the very same thing for a later year. I would write to them asking for an explanation, as it would clearly explain on the notices that I could, but never once did I get a response, just the bills. My cousin in the states that is a cpa, finally sorted it out for me. She would often tell me about the stupidity she would encounter when trying to deal with that branch of the government. Finally I would get the letters that the fees i was supposed to have paid were corrected, to my relief. I found it a bit unnerving getting such letters in the mail on a regular basis. No sorry for your inconvenience our mistake buddy, no apology or clarification whatsoever for the riot act they threw at me for over four or five years. What other so called legitimate entity could deal with people in such a manner and get away with it?
 
They call it a cross road in life ,been there myself .At 41 years of age and after two Japanese auto plants in a row and working for non gratefull electrical contractors usually in supervision I'd had enough .I figured if I have work around idiots ,for idiots payed by idiots I'd just as soon get well payed well for it .

Best choice I ever made was getting out of constuction which I still like ,just not the freakin headaches .I still maintain my union dues though for whatever good that does me .

Good Lawd I got to thinking today .Since I started this stuff at 19 years of age in the navy and I'm going on 65 that's a long time in anyones book .Where has time went ?
 
Damn! I love being in business for myself. I wouldn't have it any other way. I'm pretty small though, one full-time guy and the odd(and I mean odd!) part-timer. Gives me a edge on all of my real competition around here as none of them work on the job as owners, they just skim the profit. Now my one full-time guy is a top cutter/climber so that makes it a easier go on me and being highly mechanized, mini and bucket and dumping devices make it a pretty easy go all 'round. I'm crushing my competition, coining it, and loving it all at the same time. Man respect from customers? If a customer is an ass I'll fire them on the spot, or atleast put them in their place. I feel like I'm ten feet tall most of the time the things that I do on a day to day basis most others can barely fathom let alone actually accomplish these things themselves.

Best of luck whatever you decide Dave!
 
MasterBlaster said:
That's the spirit. Fug em if they can't take a joke!
Click to expand...
I have no patience for a customer talking down to me.
If I warrant some good money out of the fool I'll throw him a $500 estimate for a little job he could never handle. He's all proud when he figures I'll be busting my azz all day till sundown, then I laugh at his jaw hanging to the ground when I give him his invoice one hour later.
:D
 
OTGBOSTON said:
Stories like this make me glad I sold out a got a union job:)
Click to expand...
I spent exactly 30 yrs on a I.W.A. union job, leaving it in 2004 to go on my own full time with my tree service. Now I have "freedom", no more politics, getting bumped, letting the senior guys take the best holiday periods, just a few of many examples I can go onto.

But I have to say the first 20 yrs being a unionized logger was one of the best things that ever happened to me. I was well paid, well trained and met and did alot of field testing for major chainsaw and accessory company engineers. Even worked for Hans Peter Stihl himself.

But being a owner/operator of a tree service running my own gig all by myself is the best I can be.:)
 
I did a little finish carpentry way back when for a brief period.... I recall being on one job where it was supposed to all be union labor, which wasn't the case. One day a new flashy bright red Cadillac convertible pulls up to the house being worked on, and it gets parked in the middle of the street. The driver gets out and squares his shoulders, then comes into the house like John Wayne walking into the Three Belles saloon, looking for the person that just slapped around his girlfriend. It was some union enforcer making a sudden inspection to see if in fact everyone fit the union compliance requirement. I will never forget that image and one of the biggest A holes I have ever been so unfortunate to come in contact with in my life. He appeared to be payed quite well for his services.
 
Afaik, unions were started for good reasons, mainly to fight the abuses Big Business was putting on workers. Now, unions for the most part have swung 360* and they are the ones doing the abusing. Perhaps a happy medium lies ahead.
 
Did I ever tell you guys about the night I picked up a bus load of Teamsters? Their first question was "are you a Teamster?" I said "No".

"Do you want to be?" They didn't like it at all when I said "not really".

I sort of thought I was gonna die that night. :lol:
 
I remember some of our I.W.A. union bosses from the PNW, it seemed they were all over 6' 4" big strong guys and one of them I remember by the name of Neil Menard had big brassy gold rings on almost every finger.

But I had very good respect for these guys, they called us members "brothers" with a whole hearted honesty and they didn't take any crap from the big companies. They took care of us like we were all family. I know almost all injured on the job workers got some security with long term disabilty and still retained their seniority.
On most non union jobs they would have been down the road with only workers comp [if they're lucky] to take care of them.
 
I was unionized IWA for most of my time on Vancouver Island. I got kind of screwed out of my job in the end by the union mandate of only employing locals when things were starting to get tight in the woods down there. For my last couple of years there I had to prove two years work experience within a 100kms of the job we were working on. It was absolutely ridiculous, tallying up blocks/camps I had worked in in the past. I didn't really deal with it my foreman did, but in the end it was a pita and part of why I left working down there.

Oh yah I've also paid the one time initiation fee twice. Call this office for a refund, no call this office, no you need to talk to.........and so on and so on I gave up finally.

Myself I have no need for a union, I always looked out for myself just fine.
 
HolmenTree said:
I remember some of our I.W.A. union bosses from the PNW, it seemed they were all over 6' 4" big strong guys and one of them had big brassy gold rings on almost every finger.

"brothers"

they didn't take any crap.
Click to expand...

Yup, that was them. They were in town for a convention. Came in from all over the U.S.
 
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