sotc
Dormant hero!!
got a double leader cedar to go look at for cables today. havent done a cable in 2 months
I stopped cabling about 12 years ago
Too worried about liability in my area
Frans, wouldn't there be more liability if you didn't cable and the tree failed?
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Also, aren't there documents that would waive liability (that would also stand up in court)??
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So you guys thinking a tight steel cable here, right? That's what I'm thinking anyways.
.HTML:All excellent points, Frans
But as arborists, we're responsible for just about anything to do with a customer's trees once we've been on their property. A general waiver might be a good idea for any / all transactions.
A waiver for known 'grey' areas would atleast let a court of law know that you attempted to point out a problem. Better 'n' nuthin' ?
But as arborists, we're responsible for just about anything to do with a customer's trees once we've been on their property.
Absolute words like "safe" and "unsafe" are subjective opinions. Consultants are expected to be objective.Not when I recommend removal or in the case of a consult, write down that the tree is unsafe.
Every consultant I know of--100's in ASCA--uses a document stating their limitations--a disclaimer. They are not ironclad, but they are important.The idea of having a 'waiver' or a 'document' is a fantasy and you should stay far away from such things.
That is spoken like a rookie lawyer prissing in the wind. Total BS. Exclamation point.For example, the homeowner just has to point out the failure, and because you were the last person to touch it, you are at fault. Period.
That is spoken like a rookie lawyer prissing in the wind. Total BS. Two exclamation points.Or if the house is sold, and the new owners don't get the papers in question, then you are at fault. Period.
The owner is clearly guilty of neglect for ignoring that need. Three 3excalmation points.Or if you go back every 3-5 years on your own dime to inspect the tree, and discover that 10 years later the cable needs replacing but the homeowner does not want to pay for it, so you dont replace it, and it fails, you are at fault. Period.
Your choices are your business. But your above statements areNo, I just stay away from cabling, personal choice for me and my business.
Standard 33.4.2: "When necessary to accomplish the objective, pruning should be performed prior..."...I've always been taught (and read) that standard practice is to reduce end weight then cable/brace.
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OM's right; it's the client's risk, so it is up to them.
Absolute words like "safe" and "unsafe" are subjective opinions. Consultants are expected to be objective.Every consultant I know of--100's in ASCA--uses a document stating their limitations--a disclaimer. They are not ironclad, but they are important.
A certain level of liability is unavoidable no matter what we do or not do, but there are steps that can limit our own personal and professional liability when assessing tree risk. First, define your assignment so that you and the owner understand the level of detail that you will be going to, and what form the written report will take. Second, state your limitations in a written “disclaimer”. Unless you have a big “S” on your chest, you cannot see inside the tree or under the tree. You cannot foresee what storms will be testing the tree’s strength, so you cannot guarantee its safety for a week or even for a day. Finally, make it clear that risk is always present, and it is the owners of the tree who are responsible for the decisions affecting the tree.That is spoken like a rookie lawyer prissing in the wind. Total BS. Exclamation point.That is spoken like a rookie lawyer prissing in the wind. Total BS. Two exclamation points.The owner is clearly guilty of neglect for ignoring that need. Three 3excalmation points.
Your choices are your business. But your above statements are
1. Unsolicited legal advice--are you licensed to practice law?
2. Illogical.
3. Spoken to us (which makes it more than personal) as if you knew about consulting. This proves that you do not:
"You don't have a snowball's chance in hell of besting a lawyer on commission who smells a fat settlement..."
ANSI standards are also recognized as the ultimate authority in the United States civil court system. In our country it seems that anyone can be sued for anything, so there’s no use in worrying about going to court, only in losing! There’s no need to fear losing a lawsuit if you have read the standards and know your work complies.
snarf, you've changed since the arborist.com days: hypercautious, and fictionalizing to cover that up. You may have enough ceu's to stay certified, but it seems you lack the understanding and the competence to practice arboriculture. If you fear lawyers, then you lack confidence, and it's a smart business decision to avoid work you are not confident in doing. Good move, Frans!![]()
No harsher than the "Don't practice arboriculture, or you will lose a lawsuit"Hmm, maybe it's just me, but that sounds pretty harsh; even with the smilies.
snarf, you've changed since the arborist.com days: hypercautious, and fictionalizing to cover that up. You may have enough ceu's to stay certified, but it seems you lack the understanding and the competence to practice arboriculture. If you fear lawyers, then you lack confidence, and it's a smart business decision to avoid work you are not confident in doing. Good move, Frans!![]()
I looked at the pictures again and am skeptical that the tree can be saved for long. I guess if the customers are old it doesn't need to last long. I think I'd cut it down, turn it into a baseball bat, brand it with a lightning bolt and the name "Wonderboy," or something like that.
And what exactly is causing this skepticism?I looked at the pictures again and am skeptical that the tree can be saved for long.
Heck yeah, great idea--then you would look like Robert Redford! Better idea to just take off a branch and make a bat with thatI think I'd cut it down, turn it into a baseball bat, brand it with a lightning bolt and the name "Wonderboy," or something like that.
Granted, there may be rampant californication in his neighborhood, but the point remains, litigation is nothing to fear, only losing; and if work is up to standard and defensible it does not matter if there are 1 or 1 million lawyers in your town.Frans lives in a very unique part of the country and his fears of litigation are not unfounded there.