Biner rolled open

[RopeArmour]

Just to clear a few things up.
Yes it is a triple action biner.
And I won't give the type or brand just to be fair to the manufacturer.
It really has
nothing to do with that and was strictly my fault.

Really suprising to hear how many of us have biners that roll open.
A full disconnect seems really rare but can happen as it did for me.
The biners that have balls and magnets are a good solution to the roll open but
come with their own maintenance issues.

PC tree has got it covered with a bowline and I think in future it makes the most sense in alot of situations.
TDS tie dress and set.

You all are champs in my book thanks tree housers!

 

[Tim_B.]

Tim, those will work well for a while. They have a tendency to get grime in them and the ball can get stuck in making it just a twist and open biner. Keep an eye on them down the road.

I've had an ISC mighty mouse open before. Not the biners fault, just the perfect combination while against the branch. It was on my bridge ring and didn't come off.

Adam, Thanks for heads up about the possible future failure mode of the ball-lock carabiners. I will keep an eye on them. I was wondering if you've ever found anything that works to de-gunk the carabiners that stop working properly, like possibly soaking them in WD-40 or something similar. I had an auto parts de-gunker kit a long time ago that had a metal basket and a tank to dunk it in. I'm wondering what you'd think of the idea of soaking an aluminum carabiner in some kind of petroleum distillate. Any idea if it could cause any harm or not? Again, thank you for making me aware of this safety issue.

 

[802climber]

The powdered graphite lube stuff works well with carabiners... Aren't they "supposed" to be retired every 2 years anyway? I don't think a ball-lock would fail in 2 years.

 

[RegC]

Glad you're OK Tommy. Mine have been getting sticky with pitch of late, keep saying I'll grease them tomorrow, then the next day and so on. Thanks to the reminder.

 

[Tucker943]

Never had a biner pop open. Did have the screw pin in in microcender on my lanyard unscrew once at 65 feet. I leaned back in my saddle and as I fell backwards grabbed onto a limb and stopped myself. I check that screw pin with my hands and eyes constantly. Im probably doing away with that system and going to a closed hitch on my lanyard. Ive never trusted that microcender since.

 

[Tim_B.]

The powdered graphite lube stuff works well with carabiners... Aren't they "supposed" to be retired every 2 years anyway? I don't think a ball-lock would fail in 2 years.

Thanks for the response, 802climber, much appreciated. Tim

 

[Bermy]

Helmets retired every two years maybe, but never heard that about biners...

 

[Burnham]

Adam, Thanks for heads up about the possible future failure mode of the ball-lock carabiners. I will keep an eye on them. I was wondering if you've ever found anything that works to de-gunk the carabiners that stop working properly, like possibly soaking them in WD-40 or something similar. I had an auto parts de-gunker kit a long time ago that had a metal basket and a tank to dunk it in. I'm wondering what you'd think of the idea of soaking an aluminum carabiner in some kind of petroleum distillate. Any idea if it could cause any harm or not? Again, thank you for making me aware of this safety issue.

A good dousing with handcleaner like Goop or Gojo, allowed to work overnight, and then some brushing with an old toothbrush and hot water from the tap will take care of most pitch issues. Myself, working in conifers mostly...never gave the ball locks a second chance...too much maintenance and day to day failure to lock for my taste.

Helmets retired every two years maybe, but never heard that about biners...

Agreed. But unless you live under the equatorial sun and leave your helmet on the dashboard of your truck whenever not worn, I'd not be worried about replacement in less than 5 years...just my humble opinion, though some USFS research into fireline hardhat degradation would at least partially back that up, if I recall correctly.

Tim, if you wish to retire your biners after two years use, more power to you...I'll send you my mailing addy and pay the postage, just send 'em along .

 

[Tim_B.]

Huge, huge heart.

The powdered graphite lube stuff works well with carabiners... Aren't they "supposed" to be retired every 2 years anyway? I don't think a ball-lock would fail in 2 years.

A good dousing with handcleaner like Goop or Gojo, allowed to work overnight, and then some brushing with an old toothbrush and hot water from the tap will take care of most pitch issues. Myself, working in conifers mostly...never gave the ball locks a second chance...too much maintenance and day to day failure to lock for my taste.



Agreed. But unless you live under the equatorial sun and leave your helmet on the dashboard of your truck whenever not worn, I'd not be worried about replacement in less than 5 years...just my humble opinion, though some USFS research into fireline hardhat degradation would at least partially back that up, if I recall correctly.

Tim, if you wish to retire your biners after two years use, more power to you...I'll send you my mailing addy and pay the postage, just send 'em along .

Burnham, you have a huge heart, and I appreciate you looking out for me so well, but as you can see, it's 802climber that's talking about retiring biners after two years, not me. I'm the cheap bastid looking to save a nickel by any means possible.

Thanks for the ideas about the Goop and the GoJo, much appreciated. So, if you don't mind my asking, do you have a type of carabiner that you consider to be hands-down the most reliable you've ever used? Or have you also had this experience of biners being rolled open? It seems like a much too common problem to me. I'm starting to think in terms of some kind of add-on device that could be slipped over the gate to provide an extra measure of security. I usually don't need to unclip an attachment to my harness until I'm done for the day, so an extra step after I'm back on the ground would be a fair exchange for the extra safety factor.

Thanks for jumping in with your help, much appreciated.

Tim

 

[mastermind7864]

Thanks for this thread.

 

[Burnham]

Burnham, you have a huge heart, and I appreciate you looking out for me so well, but as you can see, it's 802climber that's talking about retiring biners after two years, not me. I'm the cheap bastid looking to save a nickel by any means possible.

Thanks for the ideas about the Goop and the GoJo, much appreciated. So, if you don't mind my asking, do you have a type of carabiner that you consider to be hands-down the most reliable you've ever used? Or have you also had this experience of biners being rolled open? It seems like a much too common problem to me. I'm starting to think in terms of some kind of add-on device that could be slipped over the gate to provide an extra measure of security. I usually don't need to unclip an attachment to my harness until I'm done for the day, so an extra step after I'm back on the ground would be a fair exchange for the extra safety factor.

Thanks for jumping in with your help, much appreciated.

Tim

Oops, my bad, Tim. Best that I expand my castnet...ANYONE who wishes to retire two year old carabiners, just let me know. My offer stands .

So far, in more than 30 years experience, my favorites are the Rock Exotica Pirate and Rock-O. There are two reasons, the first of which I think is valid for all users and the second is very personal to each user.

First, the RE biners I have purchased, every single one, more than 30 of them in the last 5 or 6 years, have been flawless right out of the box. Perfect function, never the slightest drag in the autolock function. That beats most manufacturers, right there. I'm not throwing stones, but I bet I've handled in excess of 300 brand new biners in my career, and there is a small percentage, (sometimes not so small, with a few manufacturers, even one I otherwise like a great deal) that need a bit of tweaking to smooth out their function.

The second reason for my unqualified endorsement of the RE biners is the "pull down to unlock" method RE has employed. It is so much easier for me over the more common "push up" type, that I rather dislike using any other.

I have to note, my good friend Stig got some of the Pirate biners on my advice, and hated them. As I understand it, all the other biners he and his crew used worked the opposite, and they didn't like having a mix of mechanisms in their kit. Me, I relegated those other lousy "push up" styles to lesser uses...but that is certainly a choice not all would agree with.

But, back to your original question...I don't think there is a "safest" biner. They ALL have to be monitored every single time they are deployed, just like every other bit of gear we depend on for life support.

 

[Tim_B.]

Burnham, thanks so much for taking the time to respond. The difference in the way the Rock Exotica functions is something I'd never heard before. I'll take a serious look at the two you've mentioned. Also, it stands to reason that most of their other gear is made to a similarly high standard.

I presently do not own any Rock Exotica gear at all, but with your strong recommendation I intend to give their whole product line a serious look. Thanks again.

Tim


P.S. OK, I just went to the Rock Exotica website, and the very first thing they mention about their biners compared to others is:
"Highest inward gate/sleeve strength to reduce risk of something levering against the sleeve and breaking it open."

This may be the answer we're all looking for as far as preventing the accidental opening of biners is concerned. It would be interesting to me to know whether any users of a Rock Exotica biner have ever experienced an accidental opening on one of their biners. Just because it's never happened doesn't mean it won't, but it would be nice to know in any case.

 

[Burnham]

Tim, take a look at the RE ORCA line of biners, while you are at it. An interesting concept, works well as far as I hear, though I have not used one myself. Not for the newbie apparently, but might serve your interests.

You could ask CursedVoyce...I believe Stephen has tried one. NiceGuyDave at Wespur, aka wiley_p here, could give some worthwhile input, if I'm not mistaken.

You are right, re the quality of the RE line of gear. I have always been more than satisfied with Rock's stuff.

 

[SouthSoundTree]

A good dousing with handcleaner like Goop or Gojo, allowed to work overnight, and then some brushing with an old toothbrush and hot water from the tap will take care of most pitch issues. Myself, working in conifers mostly...never gave the ball locks a second chance...too much maintenance and day to day failure to lock for my taste.



Agreed. But unless you live under the equatorial sun and leave your helmet on the dashboard of your truck whenever not worn, I'd not be worried about replacement in less than 5 years...just my humble opinion, though some USFS research into fireline hardhat degradation would at least partially back that up, if I recall correctly.

Tim, if you wish to retire your biners after two years use, more power to you...I'll send you my mailing addy and pay the postage, just send 'em along .

There is a manufacture date molded into helmets. I believe that I've HEARD online, not read anything official, indicating a take out of service date for helmets. I think it was 2 years, except maybe Pacific since they are kevlar (and epoxy?), not regular helmet plastic (whatever that is).

From a legal, employer perspective this is a consideration.

I still wear my much too old rock climbing helmet for climbing rocks, and until the Kask/ Comm system, did for trees (like 10-12 years old. prioritizing other purchases).

 

[Burnham]

As do most of us.

 

[Marc-Antoine]

For the lifetime, Petzl wrote that in the technical sheets for their products (helmet Vertex Vent in this case) :

Petzl general information
Lifetime / When to retire your equipment
For Petzl’s plastic and textile products, the maximum lifetime is 10 years from the
date of manufacture. It is indefinite for metallic products.

More over, this helmet (I didn't look for others) has a 3 years guarantee, so trashing it after only two years would be a pity.
Except if it is damaged or suspected to be.

 

[Burnham]

There ya go. Thanks, M-A.

 

[BOTS]

so after 10 years send it to Burnham??? lol

 

[Burnham]

Uhhhh...no.

Now Scott, do I have to go back and quote my post? That offer was for BINERS, should anyone think discarding them after two years use was wise. No offers on your sweat-stained and smelly old helmet was ever made!

 

[BOTS]

Uhhhh...no.

Now Scott, do I have to go back and quote my post? That offer was for BINERS, should anyone think discarding them after two years use was wise. No offers on your sweat-stained and smelly old helmet was ever made!

haha good one brother Burn!...i blame it on my old age

 

[Burnham]

You can only imagine what old age is, at your still fresh state of affairs, my friend. Close perhaps, but not there yet .

 

[rumination]

Burnham, I'm with you 100% on the RE biners, they are my favorites hands down. You forgot to mention the diagonally opening gates which provide a bit of extra gate clearance, another nice feature.

I think we both went through the same evolution from the Omega Pacific biners...

 

[Bermy]

Ha, so I should retire my helmet next year...it will be 10 in September 2015...Vertex vent
Truth Burnham, we all keep those helmets a pretty long time!

The only instance I remember is some helmets that were stored on the top shelf in a shipping container, I had all the training equipment in there, I guess it got REAL hot over the summer because at least three of the helmets had cracks in them come September...I kept them for training purposes, you had to look pretty close to see the cracks. Someone also gave me a nasty pink UV degraded helmet, it once was red, when you squeezed it, it crackled, if you scratched it, flakes of plastic came off. I can't remember how old it was but it was WELL past it's use by date! They were both great training aids.

 

[Burnham]

Burnham, I'm with you 100% on the RE biners, they are my favorites hands down. You forgot to mention the diagonally opening gates which provide a bit of extra gate clearance, another nice feature.

I think we both went through the same evolution from the Omega Pacific biners...

Precisely, my old friend. We're not the only ones, I'm sure.

I still have a covey of the OP Jake biners and some Industrial D's as well, and after culling and a bit of tweaking, neither is a bad biner at all. Just not up to the production standards that Rock puts out.