Big Douglas fir storm damage

[Roundhouse]

My neighbor has a big (4’ DBH) Doug fir in his field that I’ve been thinking about offering to prune. We have strong east winds in the winter here so the tree is heavily flagged to the west and has a lot of broken limbs on the east side. I’d like to prune the dead wood and broken limbs but I’ve been debating a couple things - should the broken branches all be cut back to the main stem or should some heading cuts be made in this case? I figure the smaller limbs should be cut all the way back (4” dia. or less) but there are some 6”-8” limbs also broken or damaged. I read a TCIA article recently saying that in some cases a heading cut should be used on large damaged limbs to postpone decay in the trunk. Seems like the Doug firs here compartmentalize well and the tree seems healthy otherwise. Thoughts?

 

[cory]

I read a TCIA article recently saying that in some cases a heading cut should be used on large damaged limbs to postpone decay in the trunk. Seems like the Doug firs here compartmentalize well

Welcome, Roundhouse

 

[SeanKroll]

Less is more.

How much more damage does the tree need after storm damage?

Cutting off more remaining food factories, and stored energy not help a tree.

 

[Roundhouse]

Less is more.

How much more damage does the tree need after storm damage?

Cutting off more remaining food factories, and stored energy not help a tree.

Right, the idea is to remove only dead or broken limbs. I have no intention of removing any healthy branches. The question is where to cut the damaged limbs back to. Typically a heading cut would not be recommended nor would removing a large limb from a mature tree. Better to leave a 3’-4’ stub on a 6”-8” limb or just do a collar cut at the trunk on this size tree?

 

[Bermy]

For storm damage yes, I will use heading cuts to just remove the broken portion, leaving the stub with a clean end. Give the tree a couple of seasons to recover, then if necessary, some further formative pruning can be done.
I have moved almost completely away from cutting broken medium and large size branches back to the trunk. If you think about it, it is a natural process, we are only removing the broken portion because it it either a risk to people or property, or someone doesn't like how it looks.
Working on trees with old storm damage where either a broken branch was left naturally or just the broken bit cut off, for the most part when I have had to cut back to the trunk or remove the tree, that stub has compartmentalized way up the stub, or, done the usual and compartmentalized right back along the 'branch cone' into the trunk.
Less is more sometimes and trees have and amazing ability to manage themselves sometimes with minimal interference from us.

 

[lxskllr]

That's my intuition, backed up by not much aside from observing trees in the woods. I figure trees have done well enough with no humans at all, and it still isn't required. Left alone, they'll take care of themselves, and any work is to make humans happy.

 

[DMc]

On the storm broken limbs, just cut them to the first bit of healthy green.

The limbs on the right side are overextended and in real danger of snapping in the next storm. Taking a few feet off the tips of those limbs would substantially help in reducing that danger.

 

[squisher]

That is a wolfy bastard. If I hadn't read the description I'd think the sun only shined on the one side.

 

[Roundhouse]

Cool, thanks for the replies everyone. I’m leaning towards just trimming the danglers back to live growth. Of course it’s all kinda up to the homeowner but it’s good to have a starting point to discuss.

 

[pantheraba]

Good picture of the tree...helps understand your questions better. Cool tree, too.

 

[Roundhouse]

That is a wolfy bastard. If I hadn't read the description I'd think the sun only shined on the one side.

You should see the bottom branch of the one at our place. It’s probably 16” at the trunk and at least 30’ long. These guys grew up with that east wind and no protection so they’re all lopsided.

 

[SeanKroll]

On the storm broken limbs, just cut them to the first bit of healthy green.

The limbs on the right side are overextended and in real danger of snapping in the next storm. Taking a few feet off the tips of those limbs would substantially help in reducing that danger.

Typically, Dave/ @DMc is super spot-on with his posting.

End-weight reduction is a great preservation tool, and applicable here (use two Srt/srs systems choked high on the stem, plus a work-positioning lanyard, with natural redirects).

That said, I wouldn't put "the next storm" as a really big concern, short of a heavy, wet snow or an ice storm.

Those limbs have survived every storm up to this point.

This is where I say to customers, "remember that last big storm, where almost no trees failed or had considerable damage?"


These limbs max out at about 50' long (paced off to measure) and we just had 50 mph gusts.
These limbs, in the first picture "grew up" with the conditions, and are used to it, not suddenly exposed to new wind from upwind tree removals.
The stronger the breeze, the stronger the trees.


At the same time, I got a new windshield this week, as I hadn't pruned out a limb with dwarf mistletoe, in time. Same storm.

I was hoping my GF would do her first aerial prune and rig on it, under supervision, as its her tree, and I'm trying to
Help her build her skills.
The windshield was only a few months old, Unfortunately.



On end- weight reduction, an industry expert, Guy Meilleur (sp?), says a 15% reduction in length can add up to 50% greater stability.

Beware of pendulum swings back toward the TIP, when limbwalking, if you aren't getting good redirects. An SRT line can be held/ secured opposite the TIP by an assistant, protecting against a swing.
A limb breaking can make a spear of a stub.

 

[Burnham]

For Doug fir specifically, I'd cut them right back to the bark of the bole. Do it frequently myself, and they compartmentalize perfectly. Don't cut any bark, just right flush to it.

 

[Bermy]

....and there you have the part of Arboriculture that goes beyond just climbing and cutting...species knowledge is vital.

 

[SeanKroll]

Why, @Burnham ?

It will compartmentalize, agreed.

 

[DMc]

... That said, I wouldn't put "the next storm" as a really big concern, short of a heavy, wet snow or an ice storm.

Those limbs have survived every storm up to this point...

I agree, Sean. The next storm comment was mostly just to keep things simple.

As you know though, lots of limbs and trees survive, right up to the time they don't. An over-extended limb that remains after the tree has had a canopy reduction, almost without exception, will put on mass as the tree takes the easiest path to replace lost photosynthetic material, making matters worse.

 

[Roundhouse]

For Doug fir specifically, I'd cut them right back to the bark of the bole. Do it frequently myself, and they compartmentalize perfectly. Don't cut any bark, just right flush to it.

Thanks for the species specific comment. This was my initial thought. I have a fir on my property that is about the same size. I pruned a good number of storm damaged branches back to the trunk and they've done very well. Almost exclusively on the east side. I think most of the damage on the subject tree is from the same storm (ice/wind) about three years ago. I also have a big leaf maple that was damaged in the same storm that I did heading cuts on to remove the breakage. To do reduction cuts of the maple branches would have been pretty severe.

 

[Roundhouse]

Awesome to hear the different perspectives! Regarding reduction pruning on the west side of the tree where the branches look they're heading for the coast, I think I will leave them alone unless they are damaged. All of the trees up on the hill here are similarly structured due to that east wind. There isn't anything under the tree to be damaged if something comes down aside from an old barbed wire fence (and no livestock). That said, If there are excessively tangled or rubbing branches on that side I might try to mitigate that.

 

[SeanKroll]

Awesome to hear the different perspectives! Regarding reduction pruning on the west side of the tree where the branches look they're heading for the coast, I think I will leave them alone unless they are damaged. All of the trees up on the hill here are similarly structured due to that east wind. There isn't anything under the tree to be damaged if something comes down aside from an old barbed wire fence (and no livestock).






That said, If there are excessively tangled or rubbing branches on that side I might try to mitigate that.

What concerns you about "excess" and "rubbing"?

 

[Roundhouse]

What concerns you about "excess" and "rubbing"?

Just that the rubbing branches can damage one another and won't compartmentalize due to continued rubbing. I've seen them fuse together too which could make them more prone to breaking in storm events. It would also be a secondary reason to prune them in addition to their "over-extended" nature mentioned by others above. And it would give me an excuse to practice a bit of limb walking.

 

[Burnham]

Why, @Burnham ?

It will compartmentalize, agreed.

Makes for a more normal looking, more handsome Douglas fir tree, than one with a bunch of stubs poking out.

I was addressing the broken off limbs, not ones that could benefit from tip lightening.

 

[Roundhouse]

Well, I got pretty much all of the broken limbs cut back to some green or all the way back to the trunk. Tried to lighten the long limbs on the right a little bit. Looks like a fairly light touch from the pics and I guess it was considering the volume of the tree. Yielded half a cord of firewood and a pretty massive brush pile.

 

[stig]

That looks fine.

 

[flushcut]

I'll second that. Looks good!

 

[Burnham]

Agreed. Well done.