Giant Douglas Fir loses a top

[Roundhouse]

Hi tree people! I'm interested in hearing people's opinions on how to deal with a large fir that has lost one of its co-dominant tops. The tree is about 4' DBH and had co-dominant tops until one blew out in a recent wind storm. The tree looks healthy otherwise. It is right next to the clients shop and if the other top blows out it could do some serious damage. I guess the question in whether to top the tree and try to preserve it, leave the second top if it looks well secured, or take the tree out. I have scheduled a time to climb the tree and inspect the tear out and condition of the second top. A decision will be made after that. Any experience or insight is welcome! Thanks!

 

[flushcut]

Hard to say without seeing the condition of the second top.

 

[SkwerI]

You can look and make an educated guess on whether or not to keep the tree, but in reality it will boil down to the property owner's fears. If they fear the tree nothing you say or do will change their mind. Talk them into keeping it and 6 months from now it will be gone, removed by somebody else. So my advice is to do your inspection but also read your clients and figure out where they stand, then do that.

 

[Mellow]

It's been my experience that when a major portion of a tree fails, it's just a matter of time (sometimes very little time and sometimes months or even years) before another major portion fails. YMMV

 

[Burnham]

Schoolmarm Douglas fir can be amazingly resilient after losing one top, if there is sufficient solid wood at the transition from single stem to double.

But they surely can lose the second top if not. Only real way to find out is let it ride; let the wind blow on it hard to test strength and allow time to see if the what's left of the crown is enough to support what's left of the tree.

With targets around, it will be a risk. Even if prevailing winds seem in favor of the second top falling away from the targets, trees damaged in this way often fail on the rebound from a stiff blow.

 

[Roundhouse]

Schoolmarm Douglas fir can be amazingly resilient after losing one top, if there is sufficient solid wood at the transition from single stem to double.

But they surely can lose the second top if not. Only real way to find out is let it ride; let the wind blow on it hard to test strength and allow time to see if the what's left of the crown is enough to support what's left of the tree.

With targets around, it will be a risk. Even if prevailing winds seem in favor of the second top falling away from the targets, trees damaged in this way often fail on the rebound from a stiff blow.

I guess I'll just have to make a judgement call when I take a look next week. Unfortunately, the prevailing winter wind pushes towards the shop. What if I secured the second top below the break with some rigging rope? Through-bolt above and below the damage and tie the two together. that way if it breaks out it won't fall to the ground. The homeowner can call if the top is dangling there and we can decide what to do next. I feel like it would be better for the tree to keep this top if possible. If I take the second top we all know what will happen over the next decade.

 

[Marc-Antoine]

Securing the second top seems a good idea, giving a chance to the tree without a too risky bet. Be sure to stay away from the fractured zone though, or your through-bolt may be pulled out. Or make a choked line at both end, between two intact limb's stage (less likely to slip out or break through)
But what size of a top are we speaking about, diameter, length, and poportion top's height/ broken trunk's height ? That can make all the difference in feasibility. With a reasonable chance of success that is.

 

[Treeaddict]

Sounds like you’d negative rig it with permanent hardware?! That’s an amazing idea. What about weather and the rope. How long can the rope stay in the elements before it’s changed? Also, it this a short (2 year) or long (5 year) solution?

 

[ruel]

Not in my species wheelhouse but could you hard reduce ( like topping but with pruning The lower limbs too?

To quote an old timer Boston tree Preservation guy "people don't Look up". Basically meaning It's worth doing wacky stuff to preserve an impressive trunk. They did some outrageous reductions In heavily trafficked Public areas. Most lived, but if it's between that and removal , really worth The attempt. Worst case Scenario is removal in stages

 

[Unemployed]

Inform the home owner of the impending doom to their biggest investment (their home) and have fun topping and dropping the sunuvubitch. What's the problem?

 

[Roundhouse]

I think the top is probably about 30 feet tall from where the other top peeled out. Not huge and there are big branches below to cushion a fall. A 12mm rigging hank would probably hang it up pretty easily. Go back up and check on it every couple years and replace as needed. OR drop the second top and come back a few years later to thin or remove the branches trying to become new tops. I'll post some pics after I get up there.

 

[SeanKroll]

The tree will need to get top.

It already has one.

Trying to perpetually fight nature won't work.



Where are pictures of the breakout?


Consider reducing the existing top vertically and/ or laterally. Bolt together as needed.




Removing a big tree because it lost a top is arborphobic.

 

[Roundhouse]

The tree will need to get top.

It already has one.

Trying to perpetually fight nature won't work.



Where are pictures of the breakout?


Consider reducing the existing top vertically and/ or laterally. Bolt together as needed.




Removing a big tree because it lost a top is arborphobic.

I'll climb the tree on Monday to take a look. Definitely not advocating removal of the tree and I'd prefer to keep the remaining top if it's in descent shape.

 

[Roundhouse]

Looks pretty bad. Going back in a week to take the remaining top out and prune the limbs that were broken by the first one. Homeowners are good with coming back every few years to prune the wannabe tops.

 

[Roundhouse]

It’s a nice sized fir. I’m glad they want to keep and maintain it. They had another company prune the lower branches last year.

 

[Burnham]

I have one that looks worse than that at the tearout that has retained the remaining top for 4 years so far. A bigger top than what's left on yours. Some heavy winds since then, too.

Doesn't mean much regarding the future for yours, I know .

 

[Burnham]

Look at the second set of pictures to see mine, if you wish...post #8.

Wind damage | The Tree House (masterblasterhome.com)

 

[Roundhouse]

Yeah, hard to say. Could be fine for another 80 years. Now that I’ve been up there I’d hate to be the guy who said it would be okay then have it blast their shop in the next big blow! We get a nasty east wind in the winter here and the shop is west of the the tree.

 

[Burnham]

I get that, completely. It really is a crapshoot to leave it as it stands.