MasterBlaster
Administrator Emeritus
One million dollars to whoever can figure this shit out!
Payment will be in installments, however.
Payment will be in installments, however.
Best facecut for negative rigging?
- Thread starter Brock Mayo
- Start date
- Replies 76
- Views 9K
SeanKroll
Treehouser
I thought it was something about all iPictures being turned to Landscape Format. no?
squisher
THE CALM ONE!!!!
Sean are you left handed?
MasterBlaster
Administrator Emeritus
Hell if I know. I just don't think it's the forum doing it. Still waiting for my guy to get back to me.
SeanKroll
Treehouser
No, why?
squisher
THE CALM ONE!!!!
I was wondering from your diagrams is all. Us left handers are notoriously messy scribes. 
SeanKroll
Treehouser
I was reclining on my bed, with a smaller book behind my 8.5x11" printer paper.
Awkward writing position, sorta like lefties fight.
Being a lefty in a right-handed world of machines and design is something that seems challenging.
Awkward writing position, sorta like lefties fight.
Being a lefty in a right-handed world of machines and design is something that seems challenging.
squisher
THE CALM ONE!!!!
It ain't much of a thing. I'm pretty ambidextrous but I certainly fight left handed as well as write.
Anyone who's gone fisty cuffs against a lefty usually finds out just how awkward of a stance/position being left handed really is.
Anyone who's gone fisty cuffs against a lefty usually finds out just how awkward of a stance/position being left handed really is.
squisher
THE CALM ONE!!!!
Take for instance North American driving. Left hand on the steering wheel seems wiser(to me)than using your dominant hand to run a shifter. But I'm sure right handers manage just fine.
It ain't much of a thing. I'm pretty ambidextrous but I certainly fight left handed as well as write.
Anyone who's gone fisty cuffs against a lefty usually finds out just how awkward of a stance/position being left handed really is.
Fighting in a right foot forward position makes you easier to kick in the nuts for a person fighting in the " Normal" position.
Which goes both ways, of course.
I'm right handed and my handwriting has always been terribly messy.
squisher
THE CALM ONE!!!!
The biggest advantage left handers have in fighting is that the majority of opponents they face are right handed so anticipation of a right handers movements and power position/attacks is the norm. Whereas for a right hander unless they've trained and can identify the difference in their opponent the left handed stance is foreign. So maybe not for you as a lifetime trained individual in hand to hand combat, but for most being left handed is an advantage.
https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn6773-left-handers-win-in-hand-to-hand-combat/
https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn6773-left-handers-win-in-hand-to-hand-combat/
squisher
THE CALM ONE!!!!
In writing English, left handers have a distinct disadvantage through the mechanics of using their opposite hand and so generally are known to have 'messier' writing/printing.
MasterBlaster
Administrator Emeritus
There is no right or left in fighting... only fighting.
treebilly
Student of the Jedi. OH-7106A
I knew there was a reason we got along Squish.
Sean I agree with the peeling but it is definitely species dependent and the rope man needs to be quick for the times it doesn’t work quite right.
Sean I agree with the peeling but it is definitely species dependent and the rope man needs to be quick for the times it doesn’t work quite right.
squisher
THE CALM ONE!!!!
It's cause we use the right side of our brain.
pigwot
M's, Juniper's, Lowen’s, and Inge’s Grandpa
Nice drawings Sean; good info all!
I tried to learn to write left-handed in third grade and the nun came over and cracked my knuckles and said, "Young man, I can't even read your chicken scratching when you use the right hand!"
I tried to learn to write left-handed in third grade and the nun came over and cracked my knuckles and said, "Young man, I can't even read your chicken scratching when you use the right hand!"
treebilly
Student of the Jedi. OH-7106A
The nuns tried to force me to be right handed.
MasterBlaster
Administrator Emeritus
It's cause we use the right side of our brain.
I never use the wrong side!
murphy4trees
TreeHouser
another way of looking at it is what is the worst notch for taking tops, and negative rigging long pieces.
This would only be much of a concern before the wood gets thick, and you are chinking pieces..
The 45 degrees notch or traditional notch will tend to cause a lot more spring back... Especially on big tops.. The top starts to the lay, initially pushing the top of the remaining spar (at the cut) back away from the lay.. then just as all that weight of the top is laying forward at 45 degrees, the face closes and before the hinge fibers can rip, the top of the remaining spar (at the cut) gets pulled forward hard by all that weight leaning forward. And right as the hinge breaks some 10-15 degrees further into the lay, the top is now even more horizontal all that weight so far away from the cut, and the entire momentum of the top is pulling the remaining spar even harder. Then the hinge breaks and that spar will spring back so fringing hard you'll be hanging on for dear life, praying to God your hooks don't kick out and trying to keep some distance between your face and the wildly swinging stem... Not a pretty picture! so go narrow or go wide, but don't go 45
This would only be much of a concern before the wood gets thick, and you are chinking pieces..
The 45 degrees notch or traditional notch will tend to cause a lot more spring back... Especially on big tops.. The top starts to the lay, initially pushing the top of the remaining spar (at the cut) back away from the lay.. then just as all that weight of the top is laying forward at 45 degrees, the face closes and before the hinge fibers can rip, the top of the remaining spar (at the cut) gets pulled forward hard by all that weight leaning forward. And right as the hinge breaks some 10-15 degrees further into the lay, the top is now even more horizontal all that weight so far away from the cut, and the entire momentum of the top is pulling the remaining spar even harder. Then the hinge breaks and that spar will spring back so fringing hard you'll be hanging on for dear life, praying to God your hooks don't kick out and trying to keep some distance between your face and the wildly swinging stem... Not a pretty picture! so go narrow or go wide, but don't go 45
Tim_B.
TreeHouser
Thanks Sean, Thanks Murphy. Great information, much appreciated.
Brock Mayo
TreeHouser
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #47
That's interesting Murphy. I've heard an argument made, using the spar push back of a narrower face cut to counter the forward force of the block catching the wood. I don't think this guy goes 45 degrees, but argued that the open face is already pulling forward on the tree when the hinge breaks and then the wood catching on the block pulls even more...
Hinge thickness seems to be a key factor as well. Cutting tops is not a time I want a thick hinge.
Hinge thickness seems to be a key factor as well. Cutting tops is not a time I want a thick hinge.
murphy4trees
TreeHouser
with an open face the main force of the top is going down, rather than out when the notch closes and the hinge starts to break.... That seems to reduce the spring effect, however you have to be careful that there is nothing on the ground behind the tree, as the tips can hit close to the trunk and then the but kick back a good ways back from the tree (of you are bombing and not roping the top)...
A narrow notch causing the push back to be countered by the forward lean WHEN THE HINGE CLOSES makes sense... by the time the block catches the top though its a hard call to know where and what direction the spar will be moving... from studying video, it also seems that the top slamming back into the trunk has more of an effect on spar, that when the block catches the top...
I think the humboldt is a better cut to use when you are trying to engineer the angle of the top at separation when the hinge breaks, as the Humboldt seems to break directly after the face closes, which is about 10-15 degrees earlier than a traditional, which seems to take a good bit more movement to break the hinge.. That additional time that the hinge on a traditional also seems to add A LOT of pull on the stem.
A narrow notch causing the push back to be countered by the forward lean WHEN THE HINGE CLOSES makes sense... by the time the block catches the top though its a hard call to know where and what direction the spar will be moving... from studying video, it also seems that the top slamming back into the trunk has more of an effect on spar, that when the block catches the top...
I think the humboldt is a better cut to use when you are trying to engineer the angle of the top at separation when the hinge breaks, as the Humboldt seems to break directly after the face closes, which is about 10-15 degrees earlier than a traditional, which seems to take a good bit more movement to break the hinge.. That additional time that the hinge on a traditional also seems to add A LOT of pull on the stem.
Mick!
TreeHouser
So, to simplify things, a standard furry top off a stripped stem.
A Humbolt is better than a standard to reduce the ‘tooth smashing/rib breaking/ flying off the top scenario?
Is that a generally accepted thing?
(Assuming one chases the cut once it starts to do the right thing)
A Humbolt is better than a standard to reduce the ‘tooth smashing/rib breaking/ flying off the top scenario?
Is that a generally accepted thing?
(Assuming one chases the cut once it starts to do the right thing)
I'd love to see the math on that.
The force of a facecut closing doesn't alter because the face cut is upside down.
Just like we can't negate gravity by walking on our hands.
Pity, really, because that would just be so cool.
The force of a facecut closing doesn't alter because the face cut is upside down.
Just like we can't negate gravity by walking on our hands.
Pity, really, because that would just be so cool.
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