base anchor option

[kevin bingham]

hard to screw that knot up. just make sure you leave a lot of tail or throw an extra overhand in for good measure. I have tried the zepplin bend but can never get it right, and its ugly, the double fishermans is a bear to untie and its time consuming and bulky.

 

[RegC]

I like that because the climb line remains the base tie. Doesn't need a separate sling. Only problem I see from a sales point is that people will see that and mimic it with stuff they already own. Like a carabiner and a hitch cord. Or 2 sets for extra security. The double slick pin is cool though.

I recall some years back that Stein were trying to produce their own SRT kit....before SRT became cool. I'm not sure how far they got with it as I wasn't involved. But I seemed to remember that to be sold as an industrial package the base tie had to have two separate devices to lock or belay the climber. Not sure if that was a European or US standard thing, or if it's still relative.

 

[cory]

Interesting how the link says it doesn't get hung up much due to its asymmetry.

Geez the power of the innernet.

Would you use this knot when rigging, like if you had to tie 2 ropes together to get extra length in your letdown line?

 

[kevin bingham]

i suppose so, but tying a knot in your rigging might just be asking for trouble. its not going to pass through a portawrap and if you were trying to let something run and it slammed into your hands... But yeah, if I am tying two ropes together this is my go to unless i want symetry and aesthetics, in which case the double fishermans is very appealing to the eye.

 

[kevin bingham]

I like that because the climb line remains the base tie. Doesn't need a separate sling. Only problem I see from a sales point is that people will see that and mimic it with stuff they already own. Like a carabiner and a hitch cord. Or 2 sets for extra security. The double slick pin is cool though.

I recall some years back that Stein were trying to produce their own SRT kit....before SRT became cool. I'm not sure how far they got with it as I wasn't involved. But I seemed to remember that to be sold as an industrial package the base tie had to have two separate devices to lock or belay the climber. Not sure if that was a European or US standard thing, or if it's still relative.

I have seen some horrendously complicated basal anchors and I think I would prefer even a girthed caribiner to most of them based on the number of components, straps, connectors, descenders and backups they involve. I would be interested to see what Stein had come up with or what those standards involved.

Im not saying I condone or use girthed caribiners just out of respect for standard practice, but I think especially on a large diameter trunk, they are probably bomber.

 

[SouthSoundTree-]

Don't tie a Figure 8 version of the EDK, that is more likely to roll out.

As Kevin says, a second overhand as back-up is bomber, and still compact.

 

[CurSedVoyce]

Makes perfect sense once I saw the still pic. Simple is good.

 

[RegC]

I have seen some horrendously complicated basal anchors and I think I would prefer even a girthed caribiner to most of them based on the number of components, straps, connectors, descenders and backups they involve. I would be interested to see what Stein had come up with or what those standards involved.

Im not saying I condone or use girthed caribiners just out of respect for standard practice, but I think especially on a large diameter trunk, they are probably bomber.

I don't think they were doing anything novel or inventive....just trying to package a full kit at a time when SRT was mainly being used for access only. They pretty much tried to bunch a lot of pre-existing gear together and sell it as one. But I recall that whole rated duel locking and belaying system being a stumbling block of sorts. In the end the total retail price of the kit was a lot more than what they were hoping it would be. I'm not sure whether it came to market or not. If your interested contact Nick at arbjobs http://arbjobs.com who was involved with the whole thing. He's a good guy who'd glad tell you anything you wanted to know.

 

[biggun]

whats a regular base tie option?

/QUOTE]

Running bowline around the tree. If you want to make it lowerable then an alpine butterfly tied a foot or so above the bowline. 8/10 times I used a canopy tie in once I am aloft.

 

[kevin bingham]

whats a regular base tie option?

/QUOTE]

Running bowline around the tree. If you want to make it lowerable then an alpine butterfly tied a foot or so above the bowline. 8/10 times I used a canopy tie in once I am aloft.

that gives you an option to tie something too.

but a running bowline is not adjustable. If you need more rope or less rope in your system its cumbersome
I love a running bowline and use them all the time but is not any faster than this and it is limited. I don't like canopy anchors because I usually end up with at least 4 or more redirects over the course of the climb. on wide spreading trees i feel I might as well climb ddrt if I am going with a canopy anchor. Removals are the exception and its canopy anchor all day
.

 

[Pelorus]

I would find installing a portawrap on the tree much mor fiddly and time consuming. all this involves is putting a prussic on the rope, clipping it and your good to go. no lugging around a heavy portarwrap and a sling. Im surprised you would think this is more time consuming than installing a portawrap?. did it really seem complicated? man to me this is easier than tying a running bowline!

Hi Kevin,
No offence, but I'm pretty sure it would take myself or one of the fellows helping me at least as long, or twice as long as the two minutes or so that it took you to set up your system. And I dunno if I could / would trust one of my guys to set up your outfit, whereas timber hitching or cowhitchitching a porty is something we all can do pdq.
I don't find a porty heavy to lug around in the overall scheme of things.
Thanks for posting the video, and for the input. I'll watch it at least once more with both eyes open.
Cheers,
Dave

edit - it's just me I guess, but a lot of things are complicated to me. Even just learning to tie a bow tie a few years ago took me awhile.

 

[DMc]

..... I don't like canopy anchors because I usually end up with at least 4 or more redirects over the course of the climb. on wide spreading trees i feel I might as well climb ddrt if I am going with a canopy anchor. Removals are the exception and its canopy anchor all day
.

I couldn't agree more! Even the removals I do start out with a base tie that gets switched to a canopy/trunk anchor at some point.

Kevin, I like your new shackle and how you use it in the base anchor setting. Nice clean setup. I don't normally do a mid-line attachment on a base tie but instead use the end of my rope and a bowline with a yosemite finish. It is the fastest and most foolproof base tie but without the ability to add more line. That works for me as I have enough climbing lines that I just pick one that is the length I need.

 

[cory]

I don't like canopy anchors because I usually end up with at least 4 or more redirects over the course of the climb.

And then the problem would be the line would be difficult to pull out of the tree when the climb is done? Just wondering, thanks.

 

[biggun]

Kevin, my approach is similar to Dmc (Dave?) I do climb on the base tie depending on the task. I tend to choose a rope that is long enough as I have a few.

Works for me at the moment.

That is what I love about SRT WP. You can make it as simple or as complex as you want.

BTW, not sure if you recall but I had a bit of trouble adjusting to the gold RR after I had climbed on the BDB for about 9 months. In the end I sold it, but didn't give up. I got hold of one of the blue edition RR's and it is worlds apart imo. Lovely to climb on and took no time to break in. I tend to use it with Kernmaster as I was given a 40 metre length for free. New rope and new RR was a dream from the start.

 

[Levi]

Yep, for me it is base tie 100% for pruning, occasional removal access, always canopy anchor when working the removal... I use a fixed base tie and try to estimate how much rope my redirects will necessitate, usually I over estimate, which isn't the end of the world, just a bit more tail to drag around. If I under estimate just pull a redirect or two.

I never liked the idea of someone messing with my base tie...

 

[Raj]

Same here, but I use a dedicated basal anchor sling, save wear and tear on climb lines, since our dollar is low.

 

[kevin bingham]

BTW, not sure if you recall but I had a bit of trouble adjusting to the gold RR after I had climbed on the BDB for about 9 months. In the end I sold it, but didn't give up. I got hold of one of the blue edition RR's and it is worlds apart imo. Lovely to climb on and took no time to break in. I tend to use it with Kernmaster as I was given a 40 metre length for free. New rope and new RR was a dream from the start.

that is so awesome! I'm really happy its working out for you!

Dave, you always use the end of your rope to tie? one of my biggest pet peeves is having too much rope below me and having to lug it around every time I go over something. reminds me of my ddrt days climbing a 30 footer with 150 foot rope. what sized ropes do you carry with you. I carry a 200 footer and a 100 footer. the 100 footer for removals and small trees and the 200 footer pretty much for everything else. I have a couple random 50-75 footers for the smaller removals.

I have always used a running bowline WITH a bight and try to adjust the amount of rope accordingly. thats why this technique is nice for that. one thing that makes this very fast is just leaving the prussic and quickie on the line. obviously that doesn't work if you also want to just leave your climbing device on the line.

 

[DMc]

....Dave, you always use the end of your rope to tie?....

For the most part yes. There are of course special situations, where something else is better, but I just like the look of no slings and no connectors. Because it is a base tie, I have no way to do quick safety checks on how it's doing while I'm working. One less thing to think about.

I have 4 or 5 different length climbing lines coiled up in the back seat on most days and can grab more if needed. For what we do, rope is cheap and lasts a long time with care. I agree with you on not liking excess to haul around but like my way of dealing with it better. There are days where my rope length is not perfect, it is a trade off I am willing to make.

 

[cory]

I don't like canopy anchors because I usually end up with at least 4 or more redirects over the course of the climb.

And so it would be too difficult to pull the line from the tree when the climb is done due to all the friction in the redirects? Thanks.

 

[kevin bingham]

And so it would be too difficult to pull the line from the tree when the climb is done due to all the friction in the redirects? Thanks.

yes exactly. You can do a few redirects but not too many. I sometimes have trouble pulling my base ties out because of too many redirects.

 

[cory]

Makes sense, thanks!

 

[CurSedVoyce]

My best has been 5 redirects in a smooth barked live oak.I suggest not to do more