Atlanta accident -- climber dies
- Thread starter pantheraba
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pantheraba
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- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #28
Welcome, Sawjocky. Thanks for chiming in...good to hear folks ideas.
squisher
THE CALM ONE!!!!
When it comes to emergencies training helps a lot.
biggun
Monkey for Hire
It happens. Unfortunately.
Many companies in the UK will have the ground staff supposedly trained for AR. What it basically means is ...
The company owner has ticked the box because the grounds staff did a course 2 years earlier. The owner might avoid a corporate Manslaughter charge but in reality the ground staff usually haven’t climbed since the course.
It is very unlikely they would be able to save you in a critical situation. I have worked for companies like that, worked solo and with companies laden with high end climbers.
I think the trick is to have practices in place that become second nature but would allow you to self rescue should the need arise.
Ask Pete Mctree.
Sad news all the same. RIP.
Many companies in the UK will have the ground staff supposedly trained for AR. What it basically means is ...
The company owner has ticked the box because the grounds staff did a course 2 years earlier. The owner might avoid a corporate Manslaughter charge but in reality the ground staff usually haven’t climbed since the course.
It is very unlikely they would be able to save you in a critical situation. I have worked for companies like that, worked solo and with companies laden with high end climbers.
I think the trick is to have practices in place that become second nature but would allow you to self rescue should the need arise.
Ask Pete Mctree.
Sad news all the same. RIP.
I think most of us who are used to SRT can get up that tree a lot faster on a line than on spurs.
Tecniques have changed a lot since you were climbing.
You are right, Stig, but I've always been surprised that spur climbing has such a backseat in real world rescue talk. It is so industrial and easy to teach, needs only occasional practice to maintain proficiency, has a low cost and dedicated tools that could be kept separate and requires no pre-setup. Seems it would be the fastest, safest way for quick tree entry and rescue.
Mick!
TreeHouser
I suppose if you ask a greenhorn to spike up relatively skinny tree to do a rescue it’s doable, a large trunked hardwood that needs skill to flip up is a big ask.
I’ve never used srt, likely never will.
I’ve never used srt, likely never will.
MasterBlaster
Administrator Emeritus
I'd be using it if I was still climbing.
pantheraba
More biners!!!
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- #35
The spikes are likely going to be handy on a spar with few limbs or stubs. Work positioning.
But the diameter of the spar could certainly be a factor for flip lining up.
But the diameter of the spar could certainly be a factor for flip lining up.
Most non-tree climbers are far more comfortable being hard linked to a tree with spurs and flipline than they are hanging from a rope. There is also no need to guess at setting a line in a good safe location, you can just climb up and see what will and won't work.
And then there is this USFS training program for those institutes that need federal approval.
https://www.fs.fed.us/treeclimbing/
And then there is this USFS training program for those institutes that need federal approval.
https://www.fs.fed.us/treeclimbing/
Bodean
Cali dreamer
I did a tree recently next to a Firehouse....
I yelled over the fence and asked if he had to, could he rescue me without his ladder or truck....
HE SHOOK HIS HEAD and just kept washing his fire truck. SFFD.....
I don’t expect anyone to ever rescue me.... unless another climber on my crew can get me.
I yelled over the fence and asked if he had to, could he rescue me without his ladder or truck....
HE SHOOK HIS HEAD and just kept washing his fire truck. SFFD.....
I don’t expect anyone to ever rescue me.... unless another climber on my crew can get me.
MasterBlaster
Administrator Emeritus
Lordy!
SkwerI
Treehouser
I climbed for years before ever even considering the idea of aerial rescue. From the very first time I went up a tree I fully 100% understood that I was completely on my own up there and nobody would ever be able to rescue me if something happened. I always just assumed every tree climber thought the same way. It's part of the appeal of doing it, like mountain climbing or scuba diving.
If anybody goes into this field thinking they will always have a backup to rescue them if they screw up then they are in the wrong line of work.
If anybody goes into this field thinking they will always have a backup to rescue them if they screw up then they are in the wrong line of work.
MasterBlaster
Administrator Emeritus
I never liked it.
SeanKroll
Treehouser
I'm with you on that, Brian.
Jonny
Treehouser
That article really leaves more questions than it answers.
Very sad.
Also feeling bad for the firefighters and rescue team. Chances are they're good at what they do, but due to training or equipment (or likely both), they weren't prepared for this rescue.
I wonder how useful a 100+ foot tracked lift could be to a technical rescue team...
Very sad.
Also feeling bad for the firefighters and rescue team. Chances are they're good at what they do, but due to training or equipment (or likely both), they weren't prepared for this rescue.
I wonder how useful a 100+ foot tracked lift could be to a technical rescue team...
MasterBlaster
Administrator Emeritus
No good if the person was 110 feet away.
Jonny
Treehouser
Still, if most of them are limited to ladders and aerial trucks.
Probably take an act of God to justify the cost for a department.
Probably take an act of God to justify the cost for a department.
Benjo75
Treehouser
Very sad. I started falling timber full time when I was 17. We always worked between an hour and 2 hours from home
No cell phone. A lot if times everyone else would leave and I'd be the only one left. Averaging a mile from the truck way off in the middle of nowhere. I knew if something happened and I couldn't get to the truck and drive out that it would be about 3 hours after dark before I was missed at home and several more hours before anyone would drive all the way back out there and no telling how long before they could find me. That makes a person be extra careful. Looking back it wasn't the best scenario but it was a job and I done what I was told. I worked for my Dad and he was harder on me than he was on anyone else and I had a lot more work piled on my plate. I think he regrets it now but back then it was work til you drop then go another couple of hours after that. It makes you think things through knowing that you aren't allowed any mistakes. It can't keep accidents from happening but it sure makes you aware.
I know several of the firefighters and first responders around here and I know that if I'm over about 20 ft up a tree I'm on my own until another tree service shows up. No disrespect to them. They're just not equipped or prepared to work in trees. A lot of back yards have absolutely no truck access.
No cell phone. A lot if times everyone else would leave and I'd be the only one left. Averaging a mile from the truck way off in the middle of nowhere. I knew if something happened and I couldn't get to the truck and drive out that it would be about 3 hours after dark before I was missed at home and several more hours before anyone would drive all the way back out there and no telling how long before they could find me. That makes a person be extra careful. Looking back it wasn't the best scenario but it was a job and I done what I was told. I worked for my Dad and he was harder on me than he was on anyone else and I had a lot more work piled on my plate. I think he regrets it now but back then it was work til you drop then go another couple of hours after that. It makes you think things through knowing that you aren't allowed any mistakes. It can't keep accidents from happening but it sure makes you aware.
I know several of the firefighters and first responders around here and I know that if I'm over about 20 ft up a tree I'm on my own until another tree service shows up. No disrespect to them. They're just not equipped or prepared to work in trees. A lot of back yards have absolutely no truck access.
Mick!
TreeHouser
It is a law or a guideline or a regulation or something in the UK and here that there should always be a rescue climber with harness and ropes etc. on site at all times.
Of course it is rarely (if ever) enforced.
Of course it is rarely (if ever) enforced.
theTreeSpyder
TreeHouser
- Joined
- Feb 12, 2016
- Messages
- 691
Very sad.
.
i read and drilled what-ifs;
Before using separate tail would always have overhand or fig.8 knot between snap and climbing hitch so if hitch had to be cut off knot would be secure on snap etc. Tried to teach all the same drill.
.
Years later, as sub-contractor on crew with a few climbers.
They made fun of Porty, slings, colored ropes, carabiners,throwline, old man etc.
>>accidentally fell into my fumble-bum, drooling, incomplete sentence, dropping stuff, losing stuff mode as placed several lines in air, making sure everyone else had a fair head-start; and ran mouths more
.
i put more than half the wood on the ground that day; couldn't comeback the next day, trying to get them as far as i could.
i was out of gas, body glowing as layed on ground looking at sky.
They let Big'Joe take a turn in tree and he was stuck ~ 35' up>> you got 3 other climbers>> not my problem
Big Joe's son is there and says Big Joe has epilepsy and is closed to having an attack.
.
Started throwing shit, got line in tree and thought i was going to get foot out of tight crotch, cut shoelaces or something and let him come down.
i got close, and saw this big bear hairy arm grabbing at me like they say a drowning man does
>>they say don't go near that man, push him something that floats to climb on, instead of you!
Joe was 360# vs. my 130#
Joe was locally famous for being 18 when at a bar 4 blocks from my house he was full growed, working, underage drinking with crew in bar.
Guy, started messing with Joe/biggest guy in bar. Joe hit him 1x finally and did 7yrs for manslaughter cuz wasn't supposed to be in bar.
>>there was no way Joe was getting a hold of me as i bounced away from that big bear!
.
Climbed up; tied a line to his line, put it in overhead pulley, w/prussic on his side of pulley; put my massive body weight against his thru pulley.
Had him down to 360#-130#=230# + stuck foot
>>reached over from my side of pulley and grabbed his side of rope
>>foot cam input on my side of pulley to pull up on him
>>whilst hand on his side of pulley also exerted the leg lift against Joe >> 2xEffort of leg lift against remaining 230#
Couple tugs,prussic holding purchase in between tightening rope more and more
suddenly he popped upwards as foot freed from crotch.
.
Eventually got him down.
Years later, he moved next door to me!
One day asking how my lil'azz picked him up that day years ago?
Said i'd show him>>He held rope and i pulled hard >>he laughed at effort
i grabbed ball hitch and added that to pull>>he laughed harder at effort + bodyweight
i laced rope around ball hitch to be a redirect and not use just as anchor to grab
>>i fell back against him with rope hard
>>while snatching the end of the line around the ball with other hand
for bodyweight impact + 2xEffort>>laughing stopped as Joe fought not to fall on his face.
.
Joe had other problems, went to his funeral a few years back.
>>seems had wilted to 160# from some disease.
Miss ol'Joe when his son comes to visit ours, the 2 boys were always buddys even before i met Joe; Joe was a big hard working man with quite a laugh!
.
Can drown doing this chit anytime! Shouldn't swim alone!
.
i read and drilled what-ifs;
Before using separate tail would always have overhand or fig.8 knot between snap and climbing hitch so if hitch had to be cut off knot would be secure on snap etc. Tried to teach all the same drill.
.
Years later, as sub-contractor on crew with a few climbers.
They made fun of Porty, slings, colored ropes, carabiners,throwline, old man etc.
>>accidentally fell into my fumble-bum, drooling, incomplete sentence, dropping stuff, losing stuff mode as placed several lines in air, making sure everyone else had a fair head-start; and ran mouths more
.
i put more than half the wood on the ground that day; couldn't comeback the next day, trying to get them as far as i could.
i was out of gas, body glowing as layed on ground looking at sky.
They let Big'Joe take a turn in tree and he was stuck ~ 35' up>> you got 3 other climbers>> not my problem
Big Joe's son is there and says Big Joe has epilepsy and is closed to having an attack.
.
Started throwing shit, got line in tree and thought i was going to get foot out of tight crotch, cut shoelaces or something and let him come down.
i got close, and saw this big bear hairy arm grabbing at me like they say a drowning man does
>>they say don't go near that man, push him something that floats to climb on, instead of you!
Joe was 360# vs. my 130#
Joe was locally famous for being 18 when at a bar 4 blocks from my house he was full growed, working, underage drinking with crew in bar.
Guy, started messing with Joe/biggest guy in bar. Joe hit him 1x finally and did 7yrs for manslaughter cuz wasn't supposed to be in bar.
>>there was no way Joe was getting a hold of me as i bounced away from that big bear!
.
Climbed up; tied a line to his line, put it in overhead pulley, w/prussic on his side of pulley; put my massive body weight against his thru pulley.
Had him down to 360#-130#=230# + stuck foot
>>reached over from my side of pulley and grabbed his side of rope
>>foot cam input on my side of pulley to pull up on him
>>whilst hand on his side of pulley also exerted the leg lift against Joe >> 2xEffort of leg lift against remaining 230#
Couple tugs,prussic holding purchase in between tightening rope more and more
suddenly he popped upwards as foot freed from crotch.
.
Eventually got him down.
Years later, he moved next door to me!
One day asking how my lil'azz picked him up that day years ago?
Said i'd show him>>He held rope and i pulled hard >>he laughed at effort
i grabbed ball hitch and added that to pull>>he laughed harder at effort + bodyweight
i laced rope around ball hitch to be a redirect and not use just as anchor to grab
>>i fell back against him with rope hard
>>while snatching the end of the line around the ball with other hand
for bodyweight impact + 2xEffort>>laughing stopped as Joe fought not to fall on his face.
.
Joe had other problems, went to his funeral a few years back.
>>seems had wilted to 160# from some disease.
Miss ol'Joe when his son comes to visit ours, the 2 boys were always buddys even before i met Joe; Joe was a big hard working man with quite a laugh!
.
Can drown doing this chit anytime! Shouldn't swim alone!
Tim_B.
TreeHouser
Great story, TreeSpyder, thank you for sharing it.
pantheraba
More biners!!!
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #49
A real world-application of real-world tricks. Good show helping out Joe.
theTreeSpyder
TreeHouser
- Joined
- Feb 12, 2016
- Messages
- 691
Missing Big Joe, remember his laugh, gargantuan size
and that big hairy scared bear claw flying out at me as i ran the other way on the side of a limb and bounced away to safety!
.
i guess that is what makes real tree climbing a real sport to me
>>cuz it takes more than 1 ball compared to the rest of the 'real' sports!
.
ya never know when this mite happen!
and that big hairy scared bear claw flying out at me as i ran the other way on the side of a limb and bounced away to safety!
.
i guess that is what makes real tree climbing a real sport to me
>>cuz it takes more than 1 ball compared to the rest of the 'real' sports!
.
ya never know when this mite happen!
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