Are Ants in Trees Beneficial?

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Koa Man

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I trimmed a tangerine tree today which had a large dead branch. When I cut the branch off, I saw live ground termites. This branch was about 2 ft. off the ground and there were no ants on the tree. I spent about 15 minutes raising the canopy from the ground and when I looked at the area where I cut the dead branch off, there were ants attacking the termites! The ants were actually going into the termite tunnels and pulling out the live termites and carrying them away. After working on some other trees for a few hours I went back to take a look and the ants were gone. Didn't see any termites around either.
 

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interesting. i know they will "farm" aphids and protect them from other bugs to get the "honeydew"
 
around here the red ants often nest in hollows which keeps it very moist and advances decay
 
We have the Velvety Tree Ants here in a couple varieties... The ones in the oaks are highly aggressive and love to bite..
Having them in the trees means two things to me.. One... There is a food source, possible pest in the tree... Two... There will be decay in the tree. The oak loving variety nest in dead wood. I also notice what Willie said.. They help with making the hollows more moist by simply working holes in them allowing more moisture. They (our variety here) primarily are honey dew farmers.. But... Love to eat termites etc.. I also highly suspect and I have to do more research on the matter, that the acidic excretions they have, may do even more damage to the tree. I think they are a double edged sword. They do help with the pest problem in the trees, but also can aid to the decay and deterioration of the tree.
 
around here the red ants often nest in hollows which keeps it very moist and advances decay

Is that your opinion based on anicdotal observation, or are there studies you may have read that back that up?

My impression is ants nest in decaying areas and may even slow decay by creating airways that allow drying. Alex Shigo mentions this a few times in his writing.
Different parts of the world may have ants that are more aggressive, so I'm curious. Here in Wisconsin we see what you see in the above pictures, ant holes on the decay side of the wood, and none on the compartmentalized area.

We don't get many termites up here, to cold for their taste.
 
Most of the 100 foot hickory trees that get wind blown around here are because of ants .

I had some spring cut hickory about a year ago I cut for firewood,several cords .The damned ants came from everywhere and attacked it .Once it dried,they left . I still don't know what that was all about .I always thought ants just colonized dead stuff .:?
 
Most of the 100 foot hickory trees that get wind blown around here are because of ants .

Al, were they the cause, or were they just there?
 
Yep they were the cause .They weaken the inner portion of the tree and the wind just knocks them down . This is 60 foot blown out of the top of an 80 footer which was over 20 inchs where it broke off .
 

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This is an ant infested 100 plus footer that was wind blown .
 

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Around here I would say that the ants did not cause a tree failure (unless they are carpenter ants) but can add to further the failure of the tree or limb of the tree.
Are those trees damaged from the Carpenter Ant Al?
 
I would also add, that if it was carpenter ants, it is likely that there were termites in the tree first. Termites probably hurt the tree considerably and then the aunts went in after then termites and then (if carpenter) furthered the damage in the tree over time.

Many ants will go in after the termites. Including very small black ants. Most people call them sugar ant but they aren't. There are some that like sugar and some that prefer other foods. True sugar ants are form Australia.
Here is a carpenter ant link. http://www.internet4classrooms.com/susan/carpenter_ant_factpage.htm
 
I'm not sure if we have termites or not around here .

What ever wood eating type of ants that got into that firewood tunneled everywhere . They weren't the big black carpenter ants though .


So,back to the hickories .Whatever the case was ,where the failure occured in the trees it was infested with ants . So with that in mind it should be obvious that those little bastards caused the wind fall .
 
...it should be obvious that those little bastards caused the wind fall .

It's only "obvious" if you don't fully understand the decay process and the "little bastards" associated with it. Ants follow decay, they don't cause it.
 
Is that your opinion based on anicdotal observation, or are there studies you may have read that back that up?

My impression is ants nest in decaying areas and may even slow decay by creating airways that allow drying. Alex Shigo mentions this a few times in his writing.
Different parts of the world may have ants that are more aggressive, so I'm curious. Here in Wisconsin we see what you see in the above pictures, ant holes on the decay side of the wood, and none on the compartmentalized area.

We don't get many termites up here, to cold for their taste.

good challenge mike. it is my observations, ive never noticed anything dry in a red ant nest. not sure what its like else where but in the summer if we cut into red ant nests often times millions (litterally) of ants boil out. it is always moist. i beleive its a fair assesment but i know of no studies to back it up. never crossed my mind before but ill try and get a vid this summer
 
It's only "obvious" if you don't fully understand the decay process and the "little bastards" associated with it. Ants follow decay, they don't cause it.
Okay I might condescend to acknowledge that .Now,being an ant expert then explain why the ants gobbled up all that firewood which was in a green state if you will .

There was no rot in it like could possibley had been in those wind fallen hickories .
 
In terms of moisture and ant's preferences for a nesting habitat, I think there is a difference between healthy green living wood or freshly cut, and wood that is moist due to exposure to rain water leaks, other condensation like being on or buried in the ground, or condensation due to poor air circulation. Possibly the firewood was attractive to them because of constant moisture due to rain or high humidity, combined with poor air circulation? The moisture content often is prevalent with decay, but I have seen ants nesting in tree roots, where no decay was evident, but likely constant moisture from the ground. Seems like they just got a head start in an environment that would have led to decay at some point....?
 
Okay I might condescend to acknowledge that .Now,being an ant expert then explain why the ants gobbled up all that firewood which was in a green state if you will .

There was no rot in it like could possibley had been in those wind fallen hickories .

First of all, what kind of ants were they? I'd bet they were "sugar" ants going after the free flowing sap from the fresh cuts in the spring wood. You said they left after it dried out.

...the ants gobbled up all that firewood...

Are you saying the ants actually consumed the wood? :?
 
I don't know what kind they were ,maybe piss ants for all I know .

At the same time I had that green hickory I also had some green cut silver and sugar maple . The flys attacked the maple ,evidently for the sugar but the ants don't bother it a bit .

The ants annoyed me to the point I wet the whole 6 cord pile down with Sevin applied through a water disperser .

I've got some hickory logs in my log pile that were fall cut .The ants haven't given it a second thought ,which is just fine by me .

Maybe I need a pet ardvark or something .:?

I don't normally cut when the sap is running,usually do it in the fall .That hickory was just some stuff one of the trimmers dropped off .
 
Somebody call the ant police.. If they are stealing wood..
Hope they get a fair trial. Were there witnesses to the actual wood stealing/vandalism or where they just present at the scene, possibly taking advantage of a previous situation?:/::/:
 
good challenge mike. it is my observations, ive never noticed anything dry in a red ant nest. not sure what its like else where but in the summer if we cut into red ant nests often times millions (litterally) of ants boil out. it is always moist. i beleive its a fair assesment but i know of no studies to back it up. never crossed my mind before but ill try and get a vid this summer

Ants need a moist environment. They don't eat wood. They cant, or don't, chew into healthy wood.

So before ants move in, they need an opening and they need damp, soft, decaying wood. That's why you don't get ants living in your firewood, unless it's wet and rotting. And once you split and stack the wood to dry, the ants leave, they have to, they need that moisture.

This should also tell Al something, if the ants need moist decaying wood, why is it the ants that caused the tree to fall, and not the decay?

Look carefully at the picture on page 1. Can you see the dark line in the wood that separates the decay from the white colored wood? That is a CODIT wall. A chemical and physical barrier to decay, set up by the tree in response to injury.

Look closely, there are no ant holes on the healthy side of that line. The ants can't, or don't want to, chew through that CODIT wall. The injury was there first, the tree sets up the CODIT walls and abandons the wood inside the wall, fungus weakens the wood inside the wall, ants move into the moist decaying wood inside the wall.

If everything works, the wood inside the wall gets consumed by fungus and other micro-organisms, or pushed outside the tree by ants, other insects, birds or squirrels, and it becomes hollow. Depending on the severity, it may close up and be forgotten, get worse and cause tree failure, or something in between.
 
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