Anyone using can-fuel for "routine production work"?

[Frankie]

In some areas of the world alkylate fuel is not marketed in any way shape or form whether for occasional use or high-volume production ... It is required ; you simply aren’t given the option of mixing your own. Some , including myself , prefer to use the Motomix , FAR better for the sawyers’ health , the chainsaw engine , and the environment! If the price of mix at $5 gal vs Motomix at $30 gal is making / breaking your operation then you might need revisit your plan ... I can get a minimum of 10face cord from a gallon of Motomix , less from a gallon of pre-mix ... So processing 10 face it costs me $3 face instead of 50-60cents a face in fuel costs ??? ... GTFODodge ... It’ll fetch 80face P/U or if you sell by bundle 200face ... That’s doing firewood ! Tree felling / work ... Cmon , how much fuel to fell and buck a 60ft 18” ash tree ? Not much - I know I can do 6 of em on a gallon (felled and bucked) using a 40cc for the tops and a 60cc or 70cc for the trunk ... Your mileage may vary

 

[Magnus]

This with oils is a bit tricky. You can have the right text and numbers on the bottle and it looks ok when you run it.
Stihl synthetic is full synthetic. Others can have mineral base and not be up to the temps really...
Then you check plug and see its all black, muffler and outlet is full of carbon as well as piston top and some nasty goo in case.
Price often give a hint. If its good its not cheap.

 

[lxskllr]

I wonder about the cost. I think a lot of Stihl dealers overcharge. My last one was list price on everything. That's what got me started on the "quality alternative" project...

Carlton chain - Better than Oregon, but kinda meh
Pferd files - 90% as good as Stihl
2stroke oil - I've never been too fussy, but I prefer full synth

New dealer sells a 6pack of 5G mix bottles for $35. That's inline with other name brand oils. Might not be the absolute cheapest, but there isn't much room to save money. I buy from him cause I appreciate him being there, and it gives me a chance to visit a real saw shop. I get the big(er) bottles cause it's a little cheaper, and less wasteful of plastic. A 1qt bottle with a graduated shotglass on top would be ideal for my purposes, but alas, nobody's made such a thing. Been meaning to make a shotglass myself, but haven't gotten to it yet. I have a cheap digital scale I found in the weeds. Some crackhead must have launched it out the car window before getting pulled over. I'll weigh out the fluid for a few different measurements, then etch the marks.

 

[stig]

@stig Uses nothing but canned fuel, in a logging setting, everyday. Buys it by the pallet. No messing around with carb rebuilds or anything, just work.

I actually buy it by the drum.
Typically 100 gallons at a time.

 

[Tree09]

Even better!!!!

 

[Frankie]

Study - Fuel costs expressed as pct of gross: $30/gal Motomix vs pump gasoline mix $5/gal ... Job : 10face of firewood from log form to split usable product ... Gross revenue $800 (10 face @ 80/face; or $2000 (assuming 200 pc / face cord) , selling bundled wood at @ $1 per piece ... Motomix 30/800 = 3.75% of gross @80/face ; 30/2000 = 1.5% of gross @200/face; Pump Gas/mix oil 5/800 =.625% of gross @80/face ; 5/2000 =.25% of gross @200/face ... The pct of fuel costs compared to the gross is peanuts as illustrated above ... Of course one must factor in the cost of bar/oil , and maintenance of saw (filter,spark plug , bar/chain , drive sprockets etc) but these remain constant regardless of fuel choice ... Most who do the necessary calculations will find that the labor is the greatest expense , certainly not the fuel! Work smarter not harder and you will achieve greater profitability

 

[Bermy]

What do you mean, no-one's made the graduated shotglass on a mix oil bottle yet? I buy a litre of HP Ultra with the squeezy measuring bit built in...ran out the other day don't have one to take a picture of. Pour a litre of petrol into my mix bottle, squeeze 20ml into the measuring bit at the top of the oil bottle, pour and voila...

 

[lxskllr]

I don't think Stihl sells that here Bermy. I haven't seen it anyway. I've gotten some other brands with the squeeze and measure bottle, and I like it a lot. They're all smaller than a liter though. I forget how big they are, but it's somewhere near 20oz.

 

[Marc-Antoine]

Here, we get the Stihl squeeze bottle in the hardware store, mineral oil for public use (not in the pro market). Two marks on the metering part, for 3 and 5 liters. I bought one just for the bottle and I fill it again time to time from a 20 liters canister of full synthetic oil. Very handy, almost no spill, no need to clean a metering glass afterward and it sustains the abuse in the truck.

I don't use the Motomix or the like, mostly because I can't stand the smell of the exhaust. Buying something five times the cost of the other thing for the same service and which overall makes me dizzy, no thanks.

 

[chainsawer4741]

Post removed.

 

[lxskllr]

Welcome!

@Frankie posted this link in another thread...

PPT - STIHL Inc. Mix Oil Comparison PowerPoint Presentation, free download - ID:1157650

STIHL Inc. Mix Oil Comparison. STIHL Inc. Mix Oil Comparison. 500+ hour static run test Seven BR 600 blowers Test results from June 2006 Machines ran at W.O.T. 24 hours around the clock Represents approximately 1 year of professional use All oils mixed per manufacturer‘s instructions.

www.slideserve.com

At this point, I can't say I'm convinced, but it's evidence, and since it points to my preferred oil as being better, I'll keep going with it. I'm not super particular though, and I don't think it makes a huge difference as long as quality oil is used. I just finished a bottle of PoulanPro synthetic. Next up is Stihl Ultra. Before that, I had a small bottle of some kind of echo blend that came with one of my saws. They all seemed about the same as far as performance goes.

 

[Naturarbo]

been on stihl moto mix for 8 years now and will not change ...its pricey like all tree gear ...the shop where all my stihl stuff comes from will sell my saws for half price if I want to get rid of them

 

[bullbrauch]

In mixed fuel the oils often have various property's. Like most fully synthetic oils versus mineral oils.
Its often not just the fuel that is different.
Running gas from station here with mineral oil builds carbon. Change oil to a fully synthetic and it will crawl in under carbon and you cook the saw.
Its important to know how fuel mixes are different before changing fuel mix.

I try to tell people not to change fuel mix, if it works, don't mess with it...
If you change fuel mix make sure its clean inside first. not just piston top, but under piston, crank case cylinder top, transfers, carb, intake etc...

Magnus and everyone else,

Quick clarification on this thought, please. I tend to use the shit out of my saws for a few days and then they sit for a couple of months, and coming from the fire world where the majority of our saws were not assigned to someone (very thankful wildland guys had our own saws) we decided to go to trufuel due to inconsistencies in fuel and humans. Now being semi-retired I tend to keep my saws around the house either empty or filled with trufuel, when I'm going to be cutting a bunch I happily run premium pump gas mixed with Stihl grey bottle. Does anybody see any issue with flopping back and forth between decent pump gas and trufuel?

 

[lxskllr]

Last week I fired up my 362 for the first time in almost a year. It was stored with corn free gas, and Stihl silver oil. About 7 pulls, it fired up and ran flawlessly. If you only have corn gas, I'd make sure it was purged, and trufuel in the system before storage. I don't see any problem with switching between different quality fuels/oils, but I'd avoid keeping corn gas in the saws.

Anecdotal, so not worth much, but I used to run corn gas in all my small equipment, and I didn't really have much issue with it other than them being balky to start after sitting awhile. I bought a good Stihl(my 362), and didn't want to run corn gas in it. I switched all my equipment over to corn free gas, and a poulanpro and Deere mower died soon after. I didn't do a postmortem to see what the issue was, but I suspect the real gas loosened some crud or something and wrecked the carbs. I've had no issues since running 100% corn free, and I sometimes use premix when I run out of my corn free gas, cause I don't want it in my equipment at all if I can help it.

edit:
I also bought a used mower that certainly had corn gas it's whole life. After using my corn free, it quit running right. I had to run it full choke to keep it going. It's still in the garage, but has other issues, so I haven't fooled with it yet.

 

[SkwerI]

Magnus and everyone else,

Quick clarification on this thought, please. I tend to use the shit out of my saws for a few days and then they sit for a couple of months, and coming from the fire world where the majority of our saws were not assigned to someone (very thankful wildland guys had our own saws) we decided to go to trufuel due to inconsistencies in fuel and humans. Now being semi-retired I tend to keep my saws around the house either empty or filled with trufuel, when I'm going to be cutting a bunch I happily run premium pump gas mixed with Stihl grey bottle. Does anybody see any issue with flopping back and forth between decent pump gas and trufuel?

I've used Stihl grey bottle oil for years and it's about the best mix oil I've ever used. It has plenty of fuel stabilizers in it, I've had saws sitting for 3 years and still fired right up. Granted they didn't run great, but they ran. I've had no noticeable reduction in performance with 12-18 month old fuel. On the very rare occasion I have old fuel I'll dump it in my lawn mower. Parking your saws for a year with Stihl mix in them is perfectly fine IMO. I think it's better than running them dry because the mix oil protects the parts from corrosion.

 

[Magnus]

I can't say it is a good idea to shift fuels if its not absolutely needed.
It creates unneeded risks and work/money.
If saw run well on truefuel and has done so, I think it is a better idea to stick to that.
Regardless of what fuel you have if it runs well don't change... If not, clean saw well inside and out. remove dirt, carbon etc everyewere, in cylinder top, inside piston, crankcase etc too. I usually change sparkplug, fuel hose and membranes too as they no like fuel changes.

Changing fuels alway's involve risks and it often happen stuff.
Sometimes the oil in fuel is changed, sometimes fuel is changed (same oil), but fuels property's still change.
Getting gas on different stations with different brands, quality and content is same thing.

If you have something that work, stick to it.
The only thing worse than bad fuel is fuel change.