sotc
Dormant hero!!
Good question. Obviously in a residential scenario you wouldn't continue with the back cut. In the woods, I guess it would depend on many factors. I will patiently wait more experienced input
Another training/recert with D. Douglas Dent
- Thread starter Burnham
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Good question. Obviously in a residential scenario you wouldn't continue with the back cut. In the woods, I guess it would depend on many factors. I will patiently wait more experienced input
Burnham
Woods walker
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #78
Please excuse my prior, tactless post. I did not mean offense or direct offense at anybody who is too sensitive to have a conversation about proper directional falling.
Just for conversation though, if decay and punk is suspected, and then confirmed with a rotten face. -without line the favor of the tree runs the show-.
Before I annoy everybody , and people call me the punk ( not the tree kind). And for the sake of holding to a higher standard ( Douglas Dent) who I always thought was Mr A-1 on Safety. And because you ruled out leaving a fat tapered hinge because of the rot, Would a small face in the direction of the snag's natural lean, followed by a back- cut parallel to that have been in order?
Predicting that the tree was not going to follow your face, but continuing with a back-cut that was intended for a different direction is not right.
Snags kill a lot of fallers and through training and threads like yours a better approach is all that it takes. You were obviously there and I was not and above all I think your pictures and thread are great and very informative.
I'm always happy to discuss falling techniques, and seldom have been accused of being thin skinned. I may have answered in a snappish manner because I addressed all of your questions in my initial post. It appeared to me you looked at the pics and failed to read the text. I'm sorry if I was unclear there, and I'm sorry if I came across as sensitive to criticism.
So, back to your current query...I elected not to face the tree straight to the head lean because in sounding the tree I found that the only semi-sound wood would have been on the left side of the hinge if I had done so. I felt that the tree would swing left due to that, should I have faced it straight to the lean. Now, if it did swing left, it would have fallen directly into two large Doug firs, broken up on contact, and sent chunks of the snag who knows where...likely back at me. Dent would have had my hide if I'd done as you suggest...that would have increased the danger to the faller significantly.
So I left the face as it was, knowing the hinge would fail to direct the tree anywhere, and that backcutting would take out the semi-solid wood and the tree would go straight to the head lean. The face was truly immaterial...I could have put no face at all and the same thing would have happened if I'd back cut it the same as I did.
This is completely unorthodox. It was also completely correct and put the tree in the safest place I could have done, given the condition of the tree.
You said in your post that I quoted above:
Predicting that the tree was not going to follow your face, but continuing with a back-cut that was intended for a different direction is not right.
The back cut wasn't intended for a different dirrection. It was intended to sever the wood holding the snag upright so the tree could fall to it's head lean without inducing swing.
Of course, if there had been a potential target that should be avoided straight to the head lean, I would not have proceeded. Doesn't matter if it had been a tree to strike that might cause the snag to fold back at the sawyer, or if it was a gazebo in town. Something else would have had to be done to handle that tree.
T
TREECYCLE
Guest
Dougie D
Kinda like a Coos Bay without the 3rd cut? Thanks for taking the time to explain the situation. One other thing I was wondering was when you were saying that the guy with the bug goggles cuts were a little "rough" what exactly is Dent looking for in a face and back cut as far as perfection goes?
Oh yeah and what size bar was that on the 660?
Kinda like a Coos Bay without the 3rd cut? Thanks for taking the time to explain the situation. One other thing I was wondering was when you were saying that the guy with the bug goggles cuts were a little "rough" what exactly is Dent looking for in a face and back cut as far as perfection goes?
Oh yeah and what size bar was that on the 660?
woodworkingboy
TreeHouser
Burnham did say that taking the time to result in completeness in your cuts was important, more so than getting them right quickly. That's what I'd be looking for, given the situation, that a person can judge when a face is sufficiently completed, before going on to the next step when falling.
Whipping out second nature perfect cuts can possibly come with experience, but having the critical knowledge base to direct operations, and being attentive and disciplined to follow your guideline objectives, that would seem like the best basis for passing evaluation.
Whipping out second nature perfect cuts can possibly come with experience, but having the critical knowledge base to direct operations, and being attentive and disciplined to follow your guideline objectives, that would seem like the best basis for passing evaluation.
Burnham
Woods walker
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #81
Frank had to double cut that face, and he ended up with an uneven angled cut, rather than a smooth plane, and one side had a wide dutchman, not a classic overlapping kerf, but a sort of gap that would have closed somewhat earlier than the rest of the face.
He erred by telling Dent he was satisfied with it that way. That got him, as they say in dog obedience training, a "correction".
It took a while for him to fix it up, but he got there eventually. Dent wants to see a face formed smoothly enough to close evenly, and no dutchman...if you take a few re-cuts to achieve that, no worries. He wants a level back cut that leaves an adequate hinge, and you best not cut off your holding wood on a corner. He wants to see adequate stumpshot and proper wedge use.
36 inch bar. We also had one out there with a 42, and in reserve my 084 with the 60...I leave that in the truck as much as possible
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SkwerI
Treehouser
Burnham, I've never been fortunate enough to work around a lot of real loggers. Can you please tell me exactly what you mean by 'stumpshot'? I probably know what it is but I'm not familiar with the term.
Brian, I'm not Burnham but can answer that for you, Stumpshot is the differencial in the height of the apex of the face cuts/(front of the hinge) and the backcut. The backcut should be placed higher than the apex of the face in order to increase the flexability of the hinge somewhat AND to help preclude the butt shooting backward off the stump.
squisher
THE CALM ONE!!!!
Yup, what Justin said.
SkwerI
Treehouser
Cool. I knew that, just didn't know the term. I was thinking it might have had something to do with how far away from the stump you launched the tree. 
pantheraba
More biners!!!
I was thinking it might have had something to do with how far away from the stump you launched the tree.
Haha...that's a NoBivy thing, launching spars....ka-boom.
Burnham
Woods walker
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #87
Thanks, Justin and Justin.
I'd just add that the butt of the tree generally won't shoot backwards off the stump unless the upper part of the tree strikes an obstacle out front, like another tree.
They very seldom just spontaneously shoot backwards.
But if they did, stumpshot might help keep the sawyer safe.
I'd just add that the butt of the tree generally won't shoot backwards off the stump unless the upper part of the tree strikes an obstacle out front, like another tree.
They very seldom just spontaneously shoot backwards
.But if they did, stumpshot might help keep the sawyer safe
.
woodworkingboy
TreeHouser
I was thinking it might have had something to do with how far away from the stump you launched the tree.
Hope the olympics is never staged in Florida.
rumination
Migratory Hippie Arbolist
Does felling one over a cliff count?
I dunno, around 100 feet. Not a cliff but it was downhill. There is a really cool book titled Handlogging about logging on the southeast Alaska coast. -Lauching big spruce down slope into the fjords and rafting them to the mill. some of the had 1/4 mile runs then shot over cliffs and stuck tip first into the bottom in 90 feet of water!
squisher
THE CALM ONE!!!!
Lol, I've done some serious runaway action in the bush before.
MasterBlaster
Administrator Emeritus
Something about you looks different!
MasterBlaster
Administrator Emeritus
MasterBlaster
Administrator Emeritus
I thought it was the light. ;>)
