Alkylate fuels

[FireFighterZero]

We do that with great success at the fire department now. We start the saws once a month but might only use them every other year. We still use av gas in the saws that call for more oil than the stihls so we can mix it ourselves.
Does anyone know if you can mix more oil with the canned fuels? that would make it easier for us.

Apparently alkylate is a main ingredient of av-gas. Does that mean that av gas is basically alkylate with some tetra ethyl lead in it, plus a blue dye?

What is the octane rating of alkylate? Does it go off of the RONxMON/2?

 

[Peter]

No I didn't think you bought it in cans. I think for me my only option is buying gallon cans by the case. It may be possible to buy a barrel but than storage would be a real issue in my situations. Why would switching back and forth be bad? I really want to use it. Its just really really expensive.

Alkylate cleans all the crap out of the engine, which is a good thing but all the debris has to go somewhere and that can cause problems. If you switch back to pump gas you start all over again, so best advice is choose one and stick to it.

 

[Reddog]

Well a quick look at the premixed fuels available here in the USA shows non are likely alkylate based fuels.

All look to be just non ethanol based fuels.

 

[kevin bingham]

That makes sense. What is white gas, camping gas. I always wondered if that would work with mix.

 

[Reddog]

White gas would be about the closest we have to a stable product like Alkylate.
But it runs $15+ a gallon, if you can still find gallons after the meth epidemic.

 

[Cobleskill]

White gas is naptha. I remember in the 60s a local gas station sold gallons out of a barrel. My bud had a Mac 101 he used to run it in.

 

[kevin bingham]

Just did a quick search and camping gas will not work because It is too low of octane

 

[Cobleskill]

Some nasty things used in meth manufacture. Anhydrous ammonia, alkaline batteries, drain cleaner, naptha.... mmmmm mmmm good. The meth epedimic is just making its way to this area.

 

[HolmenTree]

Some nasty things used in meth manufacture. Anhydrous ammonia, alkaline batteries, drain cleaner, naptha.... mmmmm mmmm good. The meth epedimic is just making its way to this area.

While on one wiinter Mexican vacation walking past a open window in one small town I breathed some of that crap in.
Pretty nasty alright.

 

[Tucker943]

A lil crank won't hurt ya.

Just kidding.

 

[Nechako]

It looks like Aspen Alkylate is sold already mixed with 2 stroke oil 2%. The stuff without the oil is meant for 4 stroke, is what i read. is that how you buy it, Nechako, already mixed?

Welcome to the Treehouse.

Yep, it is called Aspen2 and it's a premixed fuel. It looks like straight gas but smells much less.

All the saw shops around here sell it so I guess it's pretty popular.

 

[Magnus]

In West Canada it is Mike Acres that distribute it thru his company CESCO, Consolidated Supply.
When we met this summer there was no distributer in center, but I think in East Canada.
I don't think there is distributer or sales of Aspen in US. When I talked to the sales group this summer there was nothing definitive, but some interests.

 

[kevin bingham]

http://m.stihlusa.com/products/oils--lubricants-and-fuels/premixed-fuel/motomix/

Is this an alkylate fuel or simply ethanol free.

 

[Reddog]

msds makes it look like non ethanol pump gas


http://www.stihlusa.com/WebContent/CMSFileLibrary/MSDS/MotoMixMSDS.pdf

 

[kevin bingham]

Looks like a lot of benzenes of lots of different types in there anyway. I did see the word alkylate as well as the word naptha. I could not decipher if there were or were not present in motomix

 

[kevin bingham]

Definitely still a cancer hazard

 

[Reddog]

Well here is a Aspen msds http://www.aspenfuel.co.uk/files/4013/6808/6266/SDS-UK-Aspen_4-130328.pdf

And a Gasoline msds http://www.usor.com/files/pdf/4/Gasoline - SDS934 120820.pdf

The moto mix seems much closer to the pump gas one.

 

[Jomo]

I've been running 100 octane racing fuel mixed with the silver Stihl synthetic oil now for about a year.

About 7 bucks a gallon. But the performance is outstanding and well worth the cost.

Jomo

 

[woodworkingboy]

Wonder if there is a difference between 100 octane sold at the gas stations in some places, and 100 octane racing fuel? Premium here is 100.

 

[FireFighterZero]

Hard to say about all places. I dont know about Japan, but premium in New Zealand is the same as premium in the US even though the octane ratings are quite different. We get 91 octane and it is considered premium. NZ's is 98. The only difference is the the US uses RON x MON divided by two, whereas NZ and other countries dont average the two octane numbers, I just cant remember which number they use, research or motor.

 

[HolmenTree]

Last week I used Husqvarna's 95 octane canned fuel mix during my chainsaw competition for the first time and I'm sold on it.
I mixed up a fresh jug of local premium gas mixed with Stihl full synthetic Ultra mix for my carvers to use and I ran my speed cutting event 550XPs with the canned Husqvarna fuel.
Before the competition I was blowing snow off my stage with my Husky gas blower filled with the fresh Stihl mix. With the cold conditions the blower wasn't opening up to WOT like it does during the summer and didn't run well at all. So I dump the gas out and filled it up with the Husqvarna canned gas, the blower ran right up to WOT and stayed there. I couldn't believe how well the blower ran with this canned fuel.
Then to prove it some more how well it works, the 550XPs were running through the competition much stronger then what I had previously experienced with them.

My Husqvarna dealer started selling this stuff about a year ago and has good feedback on it with its 3 year shelf life. He's looking into getting larger cans but whether he does or not I'm going to run it in my fleet of saws for my tree service. Just buy it by the case and get rid of the plastic gas can and make life a little bit easier.

No more pouring out stale mixed saw gas into the stump grinder that I paid over $10 a gallon for.
If I get the power/production increase in my work saws that the 550XPs proved they got on it............ then that extra production in my tree service will be more then enough to pay for the extra cost of the canned Husqvarna fuel ....with more income added to my bottom line.

.

 

[Nutball]

I finally found a dealer for Aspen as I have been wanting to try it, and at a reasonable enough price at the time to give it a try. $18.5/gal free shipping, so much cheaper than Stihl Motomix. Looks like they upped the price to $23/gal since my order. I wondered what would happen price wise or if they would cancel considering recent gas prices, and it doesn't seem like they sell much. I think it was out of stock, so it took 1 month to arrive. Says online no benzene or aromatics, but on the bottle it just says "virtually benzene free" and "very low in aromatics". Also has a warning to californians that it can expose them to benzene. Maybe there's a law in the US that requires benzene and aromatics in all gasoline type fuels?
Aspen 2 Ethanol Free 2-Cycle Fuel 1.3 Gallon - https://www.russopower.com/aspen-2-ethanol-free-2-cycle-fuel-1-3-gallon

Looks 2 years old based on the date at the bottom.

Aspen gas hardly smells like anything, certainly not the stench of pump gas. It smells kind of like fuel system cleaner. The exhaust isn't nearly as stinky either. It also has some odd smell that you can tell it definitely is running a different fuel. I nearly doubled the oil content with Red Armor in case the 50:1 oil they use isn't good enough, and am using it in a 572 milling pine. I tried running around 1 gallon of pump gas through the 572 first with a heavy dose of seafoam to see if it would clean out the carbon. It did not, and after 1 tank of Aspen, I still don't see much difference, but it is a relatively low use saw with a good layer of dry carbon on the piston and plug.

The concerns of carb issues in this thread has me concerned: Aspen Alkylate Fuel - https://opeforum.com/threads/aspen-alkylate-fuel.20491/ as if maybe regular gas washes out and replaces the flexible chemicals in soft carb parts that gets washed out when alkylate is used (damaged done by gas, part quality then maintained by gas until the punp gas gets washed out by this quality stuff).








A quote from another forum thread on this fuel: "Many people in Sweden get Headache and Cough after using Aspen 2 stroke mix. Thats why many mix The Aspen 4 stroke, With the oil that smells good and make you feel better."
Does @stig use the 4 stroke kind and add your own preferred oil?

 

[Burnham]

Still way too dear for me to consider, especially as I have zero issues with normal gas and good mix oil that need to be addressed.

 

[lxskllr]

I got a jug last year, but haven't tried it yet. I'm only on the first page of the ope thread, but one speculation stood out to me, when someone wondered if the carb issues were from going to aspen after using corn gas. I've mentioned it before, but I had three machines die after using corn gas long term with few problems, and switching them to corn free. I always meant to tear them down and inspect them, but I never got to it. IOW, corn gas does something particular to the rubber or something, that corn free fuels don't do. All corn=fine, mixed=bad.

 

[Nutball]

I'd be happy if alcohol was cheap, and they made the saws to run on 100% alcohol. No bad smells from fuel or exhaust. Great power too, but they would go through fuel like crazy.