advice on falling downhill, no rope

[SeanKroll]

If you have to pound it over...

Many longer wedges, rather than few, especially with anticipation of sap wood rot. If you sink your wedges to the outside edge of the bole, use a sharp ax to chop off the rotten wood above the wedge, allowing you to sink it a little deeper... That extra 1-2" might be all you need to get it to tip. Rotten sap wood also will crumble under blows from the ax, allowing you to sink wedges deeper than the edge of the bole.

 

[Cobleskill]

We don't have many chestnut oaks around here, but the couple dead big ones I cut (been dead for years) were hard as a rock.

 

[RegC]

You don't need need help with that Danno. Stop winding people up.

 

[Mick!]

^^^^^ this.

 

[murphy4trees]

You don't need need help with that Danno. Stop winding people up.

No I was asking honestly...

I did sell the job and have a good guy on it.. I asked him if he felt comfortable with the tree and he said he doesn't mind setting a redirect down the hill and using a pull rope. If I get there soon enough I might beat him to it as he is on a couple other trees first...

 

[murphy4trees]

OK,
I put on my big boy pants (husky chainsaw pants) and got it down..
I got to the job just before sunset... Jeremy was just finishing up in the bucket... I grabbed a 46 with 20" bar and climbed down to it. It was killed by all the fill from the swimming pool making this area of slope much steeper and loose. No way to stand on that hill without using little sapling for support. ( makes me feel for the west coast guys that have to deal with falling on steep terrain... just getting to those trees is more than most men could handle, glad I don't have to deal with that much)

SO I could only cut from one side... Cut a notch 1/2 diameter.. had an 8 lb hammer and 2 wedges with me. Thought I had plunged the back cut, thinned out the hinge to about 1", and was getting ready to move to the other side to look and see if the bar was long enough to finish the cut there, and then trip the strap. I thought I had left some back strap, but to my surprise the tree moved before I did. Guess the strap was just punk... The back cut opened maybe 1.5 or 2" and the tree stalled. I started moving to higher ground to get a look at the hang up, and in another 30 seconds to at most one minute I heard it break free, so I just kept moving and looked back just in time to see the splash... that was a bit of a relief, cause it would have been that much more dangerous if it had hung up... Probably would have had just let it be and waited for the wind to take it down... couple pics coming

 

[murphy4trees]

pretty much solid wood in all but the outer 2"

 

[pantheraba]

Good show there...sure you are glad to have that one behind you now.

 

[flushcut]

Pull it... Can't be hard to find some place for a non-isolated pull-line with a base-tie.

A snag is the last one to want to pound over with uncertain lean. Get away from the stump, as you normally plan to.

A 2:1 pulling on a 3:1 makes a 6:1 with three small pullies, a couple hitch cords and biner, and is light.

Normally I agree with this but oaks like this in my experience can be wedged over just fine. They can look like absolute shit and hinge fairly well. I logged 20 acres of oak wilt killed old growth oak that they all looked like this and only had one go sideways and that was a tree I was jacking to avoid a hang up on the back side in a nice sugar maple.

 

[Grendel]

Interesting. . .

thanks.

 

[woodworkingboy]

One thing I've been pretty surprised about is how low you can be attached to a pull tree with very observable back lean and it still goes over as hoped for. I know it defies the rules, but watching some trees being pulled and being skeptical, skepticism was unwarranted. That's how some guys seem to roll. I mean those tress weren't even climbed, just a rope attached and pushed up with a stick, and not what you'd call small trees. It seemed crazy at the time, and as an observer I sure took cover.

 

[sawman]

I always thought the higher the better?
Never wanted to find out the hard way.

 

[Marc-Antoine]

I always thought the higher the better?

I stick to that. Physic doesn't lie often !
It could be feasible if there are some strong puller at the other end of the rope, but you don't ease the things that way.
I felled recently a poplar and a pine, both back leaners, with a high tie-in point and about a 3500 pounds set up. I know I have maxed my puller because I can barely move the handle. No way a lower tie-in point could have made it without seriously up grading my gear.

 

[Mick!]

Lower down is faster pull though.

 

[woodworkingboy]

I wouldn't want to have a tree cut up and then left to the pull low down in a do or die situation. It's the cut a little and pull a little that lets people get away with the lower attachment. Still, that low attachment I find worrisome. All in all, higher is safer no doubt.

 

[Mick!]

For sure, but quick pulling, If you have the power, can be useful.

If you're using a tirfor, bit by bit is the way to go.

 

[woodworkingboy]

Right, not contesting your point, Mick. Actually, I hadn't realized that lower is faster, never really thought about it. I can see more buck for your pull with that in mind in certain instances.

 

[murphy4trees]

when you go high you can count on more force stored in the stretch in the rope and some spring in the tree as the line is pre-loaded.. Lets you see what kind of movement you have as the line gets loaded which is a good indication of whether or not you have what you need to make the lay... those are just minor secondary advantages.. the real advantage is just leverage.. can't be overstated

If I go low, it's usually a second line to a second ground anchor and vehicle... sometimes both high and low lines get tied to the same vehicle....

 

[woodworkingboy]

Good point, Murph, on the force in the stretch. I think a dynamic factor when the tree is able to move freed up and begin it's fall. Pulling is interesting stuff to learn about.

 

[murphy4trees]

here's a double pull line using the chip truck as a ground anchor and two blocks and slings for a redirect... Both lines tied to the skid steer on blacktop which could easily break a single line... taking outt he tulip in the middle.. probably didn't need the second line but with two houses and a garage in the DZ and tulip which is unreliable hinge wood, best to have the added insurance

 

[Altissimus]

I do both , many times of course higher is better for the leverage. Also many times a low rig point with the Tirfor is plenty good and more than twice as fast. All about judgement , some of the rotten snags I get a higher rig would surely break out the the entire top. I'll rig High , Medium , or Low. Really depends on the stem and proximities.

 

[murphy4trees]

low and high are all relative ..
Here's what I was trying to reach from the 75' bucket, couldn't quite reach.. I consider that forst crotch low, even though it was more than half way to the tips...

This is a close up of the above picture

 

[Levi]

No throw ball for you Daniel?

 

[murphy4trees]

That tree was 115-125'.. I can throw 65' on a good day.. pretty accurate to 85-90' with the sling shot. I was already in the bucket. Used a pole saw to set the medium height line.. just put a second line in instead of going for a higher pulling anchor

 

[Levi]

gotcha, thanks.