squisher
THE CALM ONE!!!!
Frig man, I'll be stocking up on 200t's. That extra weight is BS man, I can't believe that Stihl would think that that's going to be 'OK' for a climbing saw to gain that much.
MS201T
- Thread starter brendonv
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HolmenTree
Banned
I've seen the 020- ms200 evolve over the last few decades and I see Stihl has come to the point where weight can no longer be reduced. Now with the new stratos now here a lb saved 15 yrs ago is back on it but for good reason. Less fuel ups, a little more torque and if they put a computer on it then you got a steady perfect running saw.
I remember buying my 1st Stihl 064 in 1986 and this model was only 14.1 lbs amazing for a 85cc saw, I still have this saw today. Then a year or two later they were fattened up to 15 1/2 lbs .
Years later when the 046 came out it was the same weight as the early 064s. Nobody bitched even though this 77cc saw was as heavy as the old 85cc 064.
Willard.
I remember buying my 1st Stihl 064 in 1986 and this model was only 14.1 lbs amazing for a 85cc saw, I still have this saw today. Then a year or two later they were fattened up to 15 1/2 lbs .
Years later when the 046 came out it was the same weight as the early 064s. Nobody bitched even though this 77cc saw was as heavy as the old 85cc 064.
Willard.
squisher
THE CALM ONE!!!!
I think on a climbing saw that gets one handed use alot weight is a much bigger factor. Although certainly lighter is always better, even when your feet are on the ground.
HolmenTree
Banned
After just reading Stihl's website the MS650 the offspring of the 064 is now 16.5 lbs!! Afar cry from the 1986 064 at 14.1 lbs.[ 2.4 lbs heavier. ]
Willard.
HolmenTree
Banned
I agree Justin, but back in 1990 a 020 weighed 10 lbs powerhead only and guys were one handing them then.
Willard.
squisher
THE CALM ONE!!!!
I'm still buying a couple, crappy carbs and all. I'm not really down with them getting heavier. In 1990 I was 15. Lol.
sawinredneck
Treehouser
The 650 isn't the offspring of the 064, it's a poor mans 660, a failed marketing ploy by Stihl, nothing more.
The 064 was a beast of a saw, but a shade heavier than an 046 regardless of what the spec sheets say. I've run both side by side with the same bar, I'd take an 064 over my 046. Felling and bucking weight matters, but nothing like being in a tree! I'll take a pound heavier saw on the ground with the added power, but reaching out in a tree, even for an hour, that pound adds up fast! It's not apples to apples IMO!
Originally I bought the 192t, weight and price being the factor. I liked the lighter weight, the power lost seemed minimal and the price was around $250 less (near as I can remember).
Now with this new saw, it gains over a pound, hair more power, and I'm sure, as the rest of the models have shown, a substantial price increase.
I'm seeing a new Husky in my future. It may not be the best, but it's manageable, and do the port work to make it run like it should have from the factory for a realistic price.
I think Stihl shot themselves in the foot with this one!
The 064 was a beast of a saw, but a shade heavier than an 046 regardless of what the spec sheets say. I've run both side by side with the same bar, I'd take an 064 over my 046. Felling and bucking weight matters, but nothing like being in a tree! I'll take a pound heavier saw on the ground with the added power, but reaching out in a tree, even for an hour, that pound adds up fast! It's not apples to apples IMO!
Originally I bought the 192t, weight and price being the factor. I liked the lighter weight, the power lost seemed minimal and the price was around $250 less (near as I can remember).
Now with this new saw, it gains over a pound, hair more power, and I'm sure, as the rest of the models have shown, a substantial price increase.
I'm seeing a new Husky in my future. It may not be the best, but it's manageable, and do the port work to make it run like it should have from the factory for a realistic price.
I think Stihl shot themselves in the foot with this one!
HolmenTree
Banned
You may have had the 15lb 064 starting around 1987 and then got fatter ever since. The 660 came from the 066 which was the offspring of the 064.
1122 series: 064, 066, 650, 660.
Willard
sotc
Dormant hero!!
200T marketing ploy....
SkwerI
Treehouser
Remember how many times Husky discontinued the 372 before they finally disappeared. I think it was three or four times over a two and a half year period.
woodworkingboy
TreeHouser
My saws don't need a computer. A cheap screwdriver works just fine.
Burnham
Woods walker
Lovin' my beautiful 064, Jay. With you all the way, bro.
It is not a question of Stihl wanting to change the T200, but of them being forced to .
The environmentalists will get the other brands changed too, eventually.
sawinredneck
Treehouser
MEH! I think the weight could have remained the same with some creative thinking, certainly not anything we want in the corporate world for sure, but at some point someone has to forget there is a box!
Magnus
TreeHouser
First two Hypes were just to get the sales going so they could see if they needed another run.
You have to separate between Husqvarna factory and sales/Marketing to understand this. It is not alway's the two are on same page.
The tools were packed ready to go... New stuff coming in and as the weeks went by demand increased. Typical ...
It is still made today in Brasil, I think it was, along with 55.
And one of the top ten on my list!
Magnus
TreeHouser
When they say company's are forced to do this or that I often wonder what that mean.
They say they can't make saws that don't have environmentally correct/approved engines, still they do, market is flooded with them.
They can't make 10 000 pro saws with this configuration but sell hundreds of thousands (in some cases even millions) of consumer/farmer grade saws....
They say they can't sell the 372xp in California (but the x-torq version they can), but still sell it there if they deliver them.
To adjust the product line and production for filling the requirements of one or two states, country or even part of world seem like a pretty steep price to pay so selling some saws...
I don't understand the argument or reason for it. In my world it would be better to continue making the product that sell and is good, rather than spending huge recurses to develop a new that perform and sell less to a higher cost. I Must be missing something very substantial in this as it has little to do with being environmentally friendly.
They say they can't make saws that don't have environmentally correct/approved engines, still they do, market is flooded with them.
They can't make 10 000 pro saws with this configuration but sell hundreds of thousands (in some cases even millions) of consumer/farmer grade saws....
They say they can't sell the 372xp in California (but the x-torq version they can), but still sell it there if they deliver them.
To adjust the product line and production for filling the requirements of one or two states, country or even part of world seem like a pretty steep price to pay so selling some saws...
I don't understand the argument or reason for it. In my world it would be better to continue making the product that sell and is good, rather than spending huge recurses to develop a new that perform and sell less to a higher cost. I Must be missing something very substantial in this as it has little to do with being environmentally friendly.
SkwerI
Treehouser
You're right, Magnus. It has nothing to do with being environmentally friendly and everything to do with compliance. Laws are created with broad, general ideas but are enforced to the letter of the law. The end result is often far off the target of the original intent. But instead of repealing the bad laws, they just add more laws to fix the problems created.
Magnus
TreeHouser
Ok. Lets say they have laws that prevent sales for 372/55/45 and the other saws made with conventional engines at the dealers for pro's.
Is it still allowed to sell huge volumes of same saws at box stores.
What/who is it that say when it is legal or not? Is it the government in US that control this or the company's model lists?
Those who already have these can they use them legally?
It just seem very strange to me...
It is huge costs and a lot more things involved to meet standards of relatively small sales. I bet the lost of sales globally is more than the lost of sales in a state or even a country.
I doubt it has much to do with environment. More likely it is marketing and a way to force new products in to market..
I know how it works in the factory. I know the reasons for making new models and force progress etc, but to say it is environmentally correct is not different from saying it is for weight/safety/new feature that has been done in past.
They discontinued saws for many reasons over the years. This is no different IMO.
The subject of environment is what is is popular today. It is talk about this every were, but just talk if there is costs involved.
If there is profits involved the talk gets in to action fast...
Is it still allowed to sell huge volumes of same saws at box stores.
What/who is it that say when it is legal or not? Is it the government in US that control this or the company's model lists?
Those who already have these can they use them legally?
It just seem very strange to me...
It is huge costs and a lot more things involved to meet standards of relatively small sales. I bet the lost of sales globally is more than the lost of sales in a state or even a country.
I doubt it has much to do with environment. More likely it is marketing and a way to force new products in to market..
I know how it works in the factory. I know the reasons for making new models and force progress etc, but to say it is environmentally correct is not different from saying it is for weight/safety/new feature that has been done in past.
They discontinued saws for many reasons over the years. This is no different IMO.
The subject of environment is what is is popular today. It is talk about this every were, but just talk if there is costs involved.
If there is profits involved the talk gets in to action fast...
sawcollector
TreeHouser
Saw this at arbtalk. 200T replacement. Do we stock up on 200T's, or hope the replacement is better? :what:
I just checked these numbers and the weight shown here is wrong, it is for a 201 rear handle. The T version is only a few ounces heavier than a 200T and does have .2 more power, so it is not as bad as this post from arbtalk is implying, for whatever that is worth.
Magnus
TreeHouser
Is there any other documents released that show different?
sawcollector
TreeHouser
Magnus, I weighed a 201 prototype we were doing a tear down on before it was taken apart and that is where I got my info. I am confident it is not a pound heavier.
T
The Tree Doctor
Guest
On a side note I heard Husky is releasing a climbing saw this year that is intended to go toe to toe with the 200T.
Magnus
TreeHouser
I don't doubt you for a second..
It is rare to see spec's that actually are consistent and correct. I was wondering if there was other literature out yet from Stihl to compare.
Was it prototype or pre series production?
Prototypes are usually very different from finished product. The "pre production" saws are more like the product, but things are usually different in the series production.
This is why a small first series to try is good to do, but takes time.
Tree Reb
TreeHouser
I heard that as well.
http://gypoclimber.com/showthread.php?13646-New-Top-Handle-Husky.I'll give the new Stihl a go first.
