X Rigging Rings, thoughts

RegC

RegC

TreeHouser
Joined
Feb 10, 2014
Messages
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Location
Victoria, BC
As the title says.

Unrehearsed, so not as articulate as it could have been.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/3-q9yxyS4BM" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 
Snowflakes, not stars...or was it stars, not snowflakes? :lol: I like the off-topic interjections.

Thanks for the review...I have a set of X-rings (for several months now) that I haven't tried yet...did use a block the other day and it sure was heavy. I will try my rings now.
 
Nice job, Reginald, cool presentation.

Since you seemed to be presenting simply the basics of the rigging rings, I would have liked to see a few other basics covered, like, how they are affixed to the tree? As they have fixed lengths, Im guessing the rings are sometimes hanging well below the face cut, or sometimes the rings are separated by several inches, unlike in your vid where they were located perfectly right at the face cut and with the rings side by side. It would seem to depend on the stem diameter.

What rope diameters do you use?

What is the wear rate on the rings? Given the friction, one would think it is significant, but Ive never used nor seen the rings so maybe it is surprisingly low.

You surf???8)
 
In my case the rings were a great stepping stone for rigging. I wasn't doing any serious jobs, and I wasn't interested in running rigging ropes through crotches but didn't make enough money for a good impact block. Filled that gap perfectly, I have a few blocks now, but still often fall back on the rings, well, at least the branches fall on them....
 
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  • #6
cory said:
Nice job, Reginald, cool presentation.

Since you seemed to be presenting simply the basics of the rigging rings, I would have liked to see a few other basics covered, like, how they are affixed to the tree? As they have fixed lengths, Im guessing the rings are sometimes hanging well below the face cut, or sometimes the rings are separated by several inches, unlike in your vid where they were located perfectly right at the face cut and with the rings side by side. It would seem to depend on the stem diameter.

What rope diameters do you use?

What is the wear rate on the rings? Given the friction, one would think it is significant, but Ive never used nor seen the rings so maybe it is surprisingly low.

You surf???8)
Click to expand...

Cory they come in various configurations ie choker, single length/line, or with the eye at each end. Some have 2 and 3 eyes at one end for heavy falling logs. I rarely need a bigger line than 5/8 out here. So you can set the eye or ring without it hanging far below a cut with the single length. There's no significant wear on mine at all....but I do make a point in rotating the rings within the splice whenever I remember.

My main point is that especially on dead or compromised trees, the rings offer a margin of safety over blocks....and are arguably more user friendly. Cheaper too.

These are just my thoughts though, like it says in the title. I'm not trying to sell anything....but worth considering if you do lots of sketchy trees.

I surfed a long time a go but soon realized it's not a glamorous as it looks. In spite of a surprisingly big surfing community here I'm still not tempted. The clothes are generally good quality though.
 
Thanks for the reply, R.

Surfing, maybe not glamorous, but not fun enough to keep you engaged? Seems like most who try it become obsessed. How cold is the water there in the summer?
 
So what's the deal with this? (From treestuff.com product details)

Important Note: A single X-Rigging ring should not be used as the main rigging point
 
The ABR Rig and Ring things are great for pruning too when you don't want unnecessarily damage the tree being pruned or the tree that is being rigged from. Just make sure you tie your throw line back on the rope for retrieval if there's any chance the Rig and Ring might get stuck in the fork.
 
I saw a video on the rings where they said using a single ring put too sharp of a bend in the rope, therefore making it the weak point of the system. Using a double mega ring or a 3 ring setup reduced the bend angle and when tested to failure the rope did not break at the rings. I have also seen many videos of really heavy stuff dropped on single or double rings with no problem, so i guess you have to weigh that one out for yourself. I am going to order some for myself FWIW.
 
Yup, bend radius. I've spiced up a large xring on some 5/8 double braid, about 6ft, with a large eye other end, with the intent for use with a block. Most of my rigging is light, under 500lbs, out of convenience I'll use the single Xring running 7/16 rigging line. As mentioned, great for prunes using parts of a tree that's to remain as a rigging point.
 
I don't buy the bend radius. I want to see the testing they did on that. Bend radius has nothing to do with it, the bend radius of one ring is perfectly fine, but it's the fast something could wear on the exposed rope and melt through it, there by compromising the splice of the ring.

Honestly, I'm not a fan. They're no cheaper then blocks, they wear much more and much quicker, and the rope the sling is spliced out of stretches, so the possibility that a ring could pop out of a splice that stretches is there.

All they do is transfer the friction in the system from the porty to the tip. The amount of friction in the system is the same anyway you cut it, it's just where that friction is distributed that seems to throw people for a loop.


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  • #17
woodslinger said:
I saw a video on the rings where they said using a single ring put too sharp of a bend in the rope, therefore making it the weak point of the system. Using a double mega ring or a 3 ring setup reduced the bend angle and when tested to failure the rope did not break at the rings. I have also seen many videos of really heavy stuff dropped on single or double rings with no problem, so i guess you have to weigh that one out for yourself. I am going to order some for myself FWIW.
Click to expand...

I think it would depend on how the line diam and ring size match up....same as the with a lowering device. The large Porta wrap for example is apparently good to go with a 3/4 line according to the manufacturers....yet it does not have the + 4 bend ratio to ensure the max strength of the line. The rigging line will most likely fail at the bite of where it's tied to the falling log, before the bend at the X ring anyway.
 
It's the bend radius. I think it means that a single ring should not be used as a terminal rigging point for negative rigging. But as Reg stated the rope would be more likely to fail at the bight of the rigging knot. I plan on adding these to my rigging gear. Just like everything else, there is a time and place to use them. I tend to use a lot of redirects to stabilize or add strength to my main rigging point. Toting extra blocks up the tree wears on me a lot.
 
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  • #19
rangerdanger said:
I don't buy the bend radius. I want to see the testing they did on that. Bend radius has nothing to do with it, the bend radius of one ring is perfectly fine, but it's the fast something could wear on the exposed rope and melt through it, there by compromising the splice of the ring.

Honestly, I'm not a fan. They're no cheaper then blocks, they wear much more and much quicker, and the rope the sling is spliced out of stretches, so the possibility that a ring could pop out of a splice that stretches is there.

All they do is transfer the friction in the system from the porty to the tip. The amount of friction in the system is the same anyway you cut it, it's just where that friction is distributed that seems to throw people for a loop.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
it actually makes a big difference Adrian....how forces and friction are directed and distributed from a porty to a rigging point. That which can be either retention or failure of the rigging point. Same principle as using a base anchor for srt....or redirects, whatever. Nobodies in a loop here. My experience that I've spoke about here is just that....its not someone else's that I just read about. That's not my style.

Do you still have the rings that got worn or came loose in the splice ? How long did it take for that to happen ? Thanks
 
Thanks for your thoughts Reg and taking the time to make the vid. I must admit I wasnt a fan and would not invest in them due to the fact that it was like using a block but only less efficient. But when you describe them being less efficient and more friction at the anchor point being a good thing, it makes total sense to me. It's never something iv ever considered as your taught to use pulleys to make it easier for the groundy but it's not necessarily, and more dangerous for the climber if the groundy isn't top notch. Any way, iv ordered a few and look forward to trialling them with a very open opinion.
Jake 8)
 
802climber said:
So what's the deal with this? (From treestuff.com product details)

Important Note: A single X-Rigging ring should not be used as the main rigging point
Click to expand...

In one of David Driver's earliest videos of the Rings, "Testing to Destruction" I believe, he said that when you do throw enough at them to get the 'system' to fail, what fails is not the X Rigging Ring or the X Rigging Ring Sling. What fails is the rigging rope when put through a single Ring. That is why he advocates for never using a single ring as your terminal rigging point.

I wish that "Test to Destruction" video was still up. He used a crane with no climber in the tree and just kept making things worse and worse. Some amazing lessons to be learned by letting those images sink in. I love video that educates.

Just came on this thread Reg can't wait to see your vid.
 
Ha, ha, ha, I wasn't "wondering." Great video with a lot to think about and appreciate about the uses of XRRings Reg. Thanks for making it and for putting it out there.

XRR's have put a lot of the fun back in tree work for me because there is so much you can do with them and so many creative ways to use them. I don't have a skilled ground man working with me most of the time and so I am also very excited about the soon to be out X Three Holed Thimble Slings. I as the climber will be able to create some of the same effect of dropping significant weight into the rigging line and bringing it to a controled stop as shown in this vid..
 
I would say one other thing now. As with most tools, with the right technique or a little more effort there is some way to screw em up. Turns out the perfect way to do some of that with the Rings is to run muddy rope through them. I guess it has about the effect that running 100 feet of sand paper over them would have. I was suprised to hear that as my ropes are far from clean, almost never washed, and my XRR's show no appreciable wear after a year or so of work.
 
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