Weak Oak

[MasterBlaster]

Differ? Ha, I think you mean defer...

Nothing wrong with installing some type of cable in the tree, Jeff. Why are you hating on cables???

 

[treesandsurf]

Haha, don't hate the cable hate the game my friend.

jp

 

[Frans]

snarf, abrasion is a possibility (that is lessened by lining up the holes right), but won't the tree grow callus in response, like it does when 2 branches rub?

I guess, but cable rubbing is much different than two branches rubbing. Cable is harder and it cuts.

I just don't have any experience with cable stops. As for lining up the holes, trees twist and move from side to side and with the cable stop the cable is constantly moving back and forth in the holes.

I need to talk with someone who has been using them for a long time

 

[TC3]

Jeff, the tree is already pruned (4 obvious shiners, pic #2). I can only deduce that you already made your suggestion(s) to the customer & are second guessing it ?
Myself, I'd climb into the way-back machine & prune out the co-dom when it was a wee lad !!!

Edit : The lower co-dom is much more cause for corncern, IMO.

 

[arborworks1]

I've always looked at cabling as, if and when this fails can I move it away from the target before it breaks the cable.

In my opinion, If you do nothing then you as the arborist could possibly be held liable should it damage the neighbors house. As long as you inform the tree owner of the problems and they decline to mitigate then you are square.

 

[TC3]

So how many people here would climb a tree, deadwood & prune it, then climb down & consult with a customer about weight reduction & cabling ???

Is that considered an add-on, or a whole new work order ? If I were the customer, I would not be impressed or pleased.

 

[RIVERRAT]

Please explain these 2 "will"s, and loan me your crystal ball. I do not understand how anyone can be certain of either. how can the tree exert over 7 tons of force to break a 3/8" EHS cable?

snarf, abrasion is a possibility (that is lessened by lining up the holes right), but won't the tree grow callus in response, like it does when 2 branches rub?

Carl, dynamic cable rubs where it loops around, needs frequent adjusting, and is vulnerable to rodent predation. It has a place where movement will strengthen a fork, but that does not seem to be the case here.

"Will fail" though this may not happen. I would rather error in this manner when the neighbors house is a target. Keeping in mind the weather we get here.
5 yrs. from now things "will" be different.
This tree is still growing at a pretty good rate. The diameter of the 2 leads that make up the weak crotch will increase. Causing them to push against each other more so than they are now. Making the union even weaker. Increasing the chance of failure......I am looking forword to your reply. This is cool stuff!!

 

[RIVERRAT]

Jeff, the tree is already pruned (4 obvious shiners, pic #2). I can only deduce that you already made your suggestion(s) to the customer & are second guessing it ?
.

Nope, not second guessing myself.
My intent when starting this thread was curiosity. Wanting to know how others here would see this. Knowing people here are spread all over the globe.

 

[RIVERRAT]

So how many people here would climb a tree, deadwood & prune it, then climb down & consult with a customer about weight reduction & cabling ???

Well to be honest over the years I have done it alot. For the simple reason I see things while in the tree I couldnt have from the ground.

This is a tree that I have been privilaged to work on for many yrs.
My opening post being present tense regarding the customer didnt help. My client was made aware of the situation quite some time back.

 

[TC3]

Carl, dynamic cable rubs where it loops around, needs frequent adjusting, and is vulnerable to rodent predation. It has a place where movement will strengthen a fork, but that does not seem to be the case here.

Now who has the crystal ball, Mr. Osha ? Nyahhh !!!

 

[DMc]

Riverrat, You say that you started this thread to bounce ideas around and see what others would do. And I think this is a great site for that. There are a lot of real-world-experience tree guys on this site.

But as the arborist onsite and having canopy knowledge of this tree, you are far better qualified to make a judgment call than any of us. Often times it can be a "feeling" more than a physical attribute.

My personal opinion of the situation, if you feel there is a danger with the strength of the crotch, it is only logical to reduce the danger. Though I almost never use them, I would use a cable in this tree. Steel, strong, 2/3 up from the crotch. This will be almost invisible and steel cables are proven performers. I don't feel there is enough greenery on this tree to reduce it enough to alleviate the problem. I definitely would not use a dynamic system as they were never designed to protect against a defect in the tree. They were designed to protect against excessive movement on a NONdefective tree.

Just my thoughts.

Dave

 

[RIVERRAT]

I don't feel there is enough greenery on this tree to reduce it enough to alleviate the problem.



Dave

Dave I agree. I removed all the weight I could by doing an extremley nit pick job dead wooding the tips. That is about as far as I was wanting to go with it.
This tree is heavily shaded on one side & never had all that much interior growth.

 

[treelooker]

Differ? Ha, I think you mean defer...?

Da Boss got dis one; I'd rather you differ than defer, big guy.

Static when movement hurts,

Dynamic when movement helps.

i'm tryin to simplify the decisions on cabling here.

snarf, talk to www.rigguy.com. You are right re oscillations and scarring, but callus happens, and the possible rubbing kinda wounding seems minor compared to the certainty of the longterm fix.

But the branching above would indicate whether this Q. palustris needs anything at all. I'd rather drill it than whack a buncha branches tho...

 

[CurSedVoyce]

Just a question.... of opinion... If the tree were cabled with steel vs a dynamic system allowing some give.... Would then the weight of say ice possibly risk breaking more of a top off from the weight with less give vs the give of a dynamic? In live oaks here once wet snow has weighted the tops, they are prone to break at the top or about half way down the leader to the top. I am curious in that allowing the tree to "give" under the extra weight, it may result in less top damage or less top to damage a structure as such... Any opinions on this? Enlighten me.....
I hope I worded that ok ....... LOL

 

[Frans]

I think you should climb up that tree when it is icy and shake the hell out of the branches to break off the ice. Every year.

 

[RIVERRAT]

I am curious in that allowing the tree to "give" under the extra weight, it may result in less top damage or less top to damage a structure as such... Any opinions on this? Enlighten me.....
I hope I worded that ok ....... LOL

My thought on your qestion is where a main lead or limb may break from a load when cabled has more to do with cable placement than type of system used. Proper placement of cables can be tricky some times.

 

[Frans]

Assuming the tree has experienced ice storm all it's life, wouldn't a slack cable tighten up during the ice storm and hold the weight?

How about installing a cobra or four in the fall, and removing it during the late spring?
Might be a good money maker...

 

[arborworks1]

How about installing a cobra or four in the fall, and removing it during the late spring?
Might be a good money maker

That might get stupid expensive for your client. But an older not abused rigging rope would do the same thing

 

[MasterBlaster]

Rope? Frig that, just use good ole fashioned cable.

 

[arborworks1]

Rope? Frig that, just use good ole fashioned cable.

Back to my original post! One time deal then just check on It every so often.

 

[Frans]

That might get stupid expensive for your client.

Frans: Might be a good money maker.

 

[CurSedVoyce]

I just paint the whole picture for the client... To the best of my abilities. If the client wans it and it wont hurt the tree... I will do as they wish based on their decision by what information I can offer them .....
They paying the bill...... I only work there... LOL