Unsafe setup?
- Thread starter Treeaddict
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Burnham
Woods walker
I don't believe there is anything intrinsically wrong with it, although the potential for the gate of the upper biner getting hung on the swivel's loop certainly exists. Side loading or even unintended gate opening are possible...the latter much less so than the former. The side loading is almost a certainty, from time to time.
A clevis or screwlink might be a better choice.
I wouldn't care for it myself more because of the floppy, clangy nature of the set up.
Some might suggest that a soft link there would be good. Cuttable (for rescue), and quiet.
Why do you want a swivel there?
A clevis or screwlink might be a better choice.
I wouldn't care for it myself more because of the floppy, clangy nature of the set up.
Some might suggest that a soft link there would be good. Cuttable (for rescue), and quiet.
Why do you want a swivel there?
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Treeaddict
Treehouser
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #3
Great information as always Burnham.
I don’t like the clangy nature and I’m not totally thrilled at the extra few inches of distance but I’d like to incorporate a swivel as it could help optimize the angles when adjusting as well as alleviate the twists/bunching that sometimes occur.
How’s that for a run on sentence?!
I don’t like the clangy nature and I’m not totally thrilled at the extra few inches of distance but I’d like to incorporate a swivel as it could help optimize the angles when adjusting as well as alleviate the twists/bunching that sometimes occur.
How’s that for a run on sentence?!
Marc-Antoine
TreeHouser
Just to argue, as is, I'd prefer to put the swivel biner on the grab and the oval biner on the D. That should give you a little less floppyness. Not much, but it's always good to reduce the play in the links.
What about a swivel-shackle directly on the grab (like the one recalled by DMM)? = one biner less and the shortest length between the grab and the swivel.
In my view, i can see just one circonstance when a swivel here is useful : when you have to take out the slack by pulling the tail upward because there are obstructions around/under you, like rigging, limbs, wall, fence ...
What about a swivel-shackle directly on the grab (like the one recalled by DMM)? = one biner less and the shortest length between the grab and the swivel.
In my view, i can see just one circonstance when a swivel here is useful : when you have to take out the slack by pulling the tail upward because there are obstructions around/under you, like rigging, limbs, wall, fence ...
Treeaddict
Treehouser
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #8
Burnham
Woods walker
Be shorter still, and stronger, if you use a basket hitch with that same prusik loop.
I think you'd want a little bit of length so you could twist the cord to act as a swivel. Nothing real long, just not a struggle to adjust the lanyard in weird positions. That 10mm Flex I gave you Mike would make a decent loop.
Burnham
Woods walker
That's true. But I think it would be hard to get it hitched so tightly that you couldn't twist it sufficiently to serve the desired purpose.
greengreer
TreeHouser
Prussic is great if you're not into the sappy trees much. I keep a long flipline with a prussic for the big trees, i think it's 18'. My daily driver flipline I use the petzl grab. Best product petzl makes, IMO. Compact, reliable, releases under load, and easy to take up slack without gobbling up too easy when you don't want it to.
For the OP I would ditch the carabiner for a screwlink or shackle. Seem's ok but has potential to sideload plus it probably puts the grab out a bit further, maybe where your hand would want to be to flip. Have you thought about a short piece of webbing? I think they call it a dogbone. It girth hitches the ring on the grab and the carabiner and would allow for some twisting. They used to market them as a cuttable link when using a steel core, should you become trapped.
For the OP I would ditch the carabiner for a screwlink or shackle. Seem's ok but has potential to sideload plus it probably puts the grab out a bit further, maybe where your hand would want to be to flip. Have you thought about a short piece of webbing? I think they call it a dogbone. It girth hitches the ring on the grab and the carabiner and would allow for some twisting. They used to market them as a cuttable link when using a steel core, should you become trapped.
FJR
Treehouser
Treeaddict
Treehouser
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #17
It’s mostly to take the 90* twist” out of it to keep the rope grab horizontal. Some rope grabs solved this problem by turning the attachment eye 90* making it perpendicular to the device’s body. I have had the biner “bunch up” and load weird as well. The swivel will most likely solve this as well as allow me to pull from the most comfortable angle as I can align it with my strongest pulling form. I believe some minor twisting happens during climbing when minor rolling of the flip line occurs. This added to the way the biner connects the device to the saddle can worsen the situation.
The Prusik attachment will be investigated as well. I like that the handsaw or knife can cut it.
The Prusik attachment will be investigated as well. I like that the handsaw or knife can cut it.
Attachments
SeanKroll
Treehouser
CurSedVoyce
California Hillbilly
Twisted clevis is a great solution.
Me, never needed it. Just make sure the large crab I have on my Petzl Macro or Gibbs is orientated proper. Same when using a pulley tended prussic on my positioning lanyard. Clipped in right, tail runs out and down from the side dee.
Make sure you use a larger HMS shape biner. Self locking of course. Sporting the Rock Exotica Pirates there now. I've had steel HMS as well. But even my cheaper aluminum HMS (probably CMI) now retired held up well. I'm not one to climb only on one unit. Cable core 5/8ths for pines with a mechanical grab. Best for pitch IMO.
7/16ths with prussic and pulley tending. Steel clip for the business end. More for oak removals or prunes.
Swivel steel clip on the cable core on the business end.
Steel in the business end helps get the line around the trunk or forwarded ahead of the the climb.
Me, never needed it. Just make sure the large crab I have on my Petzl Macro or Gibbs is orientated proper. Same when using a pulley tended prussic on my positioning lanyard. Clipped in right, tail runs out and down from the side dee.
Make sure you use a larger HMS shape biner. Self locking of course. Sporting the Rock Exotica Pirates there now. I've had steel HMS as well. But even my cheaper aluminum HMS (probably CMI) now retired held up well. I'm not one to climb only on one unit. Cable core 5/8ths for pines with a mechanical grab. Best for pitch IMO.
7/16ths with prussic and pulley tending. Steel clip for the business end. More for oak removals or prunes.
Swivel steel clip on the cable core on the business end.
Steel in the business end helps get the line around the trunk or forwarded ahead of the the climb.
Burnham
Woods walker
Seems counterintuitive that a swivel will keep the rope grab horizontal...the weight of the tail of the lanyard will pull it into a vertical position, I think.
Burnham
Woods walker
I have to admit to a basic prejudice against swivels. Not that I think they are unsafe, though some product recalls do bring that concern to the fore.
Rather, I think they are needlessly overcomplicating nearly any application I have seen them applied to, with little or no advantage.
One exception is rigging pieces to a speedline set up with a carriage. There, a swivel can be a great benefit.
Rather, I think they are needlessly overcomplicating nearly any application I have seen them applied to, with little or no advantage.
One exception is rigging pieces to a speedline set up with a carriage. There, a swivel can be a great benefit.
Maximalist
Treehouser
I don't understand why additional elements are needed at all. Brevity is the sister of talent!) Are you left-handed or is it more convenient for you to use the clip on the right for some reason?
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Treeaddict
Treehouser
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #23
I’m left handed.
I’m not saying a swivel is totally essential but may provide some benefit just like the swivel on the other end (snap) where it attached to the saddle.
I’m not saying a swivel is totally essential but may provide some benefit just like the swivel on the other end (snap) where it attached to the saddle.
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Treeaddict
Treehouser
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #24
You may very well be correct Burnham. I do tend to agree about swivels complicating matters which is why this swivel was sitting around unused. We’ll see how she does. The Prusik or twisted clevis may be the better answer.
I've never had an issue with orientation of a prussic/tending pulley/carabiner flipline tending setup once I've clipped it in.
When you first clip it in to your side D, you make sure it will tend properly, 'fit and forget'. It only twists so far then stops.
Just grab the tail and pull, and a prussic is always where you want it.
Swivel snap/biner on the other end is good.
When you first clip it in to your side D, you make sure it will tend properly, 'fit and forget'. It only twists so far then stops.
Just grab the tail and pull, and a prussic is always where you want it.
Swivel snap/biner on the other end is good.
