Tree jack / bottle jack with plate

[sierratree]

Feedback, ideas, successes, failures, pitfalls, with 20 ton hydraulic bottle jacks (with steel plate). Thanks.

 

[woodworkingboy]

Do you mean a proper tree jack, or just a regular bottle jack with a plate?

 

[sierratree]

just something less expensive than a silvey. wondering what other folks have done................

 

[woodworkingboy]

I have thought about making one, but the cautions about using a regular jack for tree work have stopped me.

 

[sierratree]

yep....that's why i wanted to see what others have come up with..............i'm aware of the downsides..........might just break down and get the right tool for the job..........there's always wedges........

 

[Burnham]

I have used a Hein-Werner several times over the years, always with success. But it most definitely is a ghetto arrangement when placed against a proper Silvey tree jack.

No pressure gauge means two things: first, realize that you won't have any precision in feedback about how much load you're putting on it, no way to really tell except in the macro scale how much the tree is responding to the lift you're giving it. Second, don't even think about using it if there's any wind...it's hard enough to read the situation without a guage, throw in variable loading from wind and things can get out of hand too easily.

I have a flat-topped piston, aand use small a piece of diamond plate on top, a little smaller than the foot of the jack. Heiny made a bottle jack specifically for trees that had a domed-top piston and a special plate that fitted on the dome...allowed for pivoting as the back cut opened. That would be better.

Make sure the jack seat doesn't slope away from the hinge...you don't want the jack to spit out!

 

[woodworkingboy]

It doesn't seem like it would be very hard to attach a plate with springs like on a Silvey, assuming you could weld onto a bottle jack. Isn't there a thing about a regular jack possibly blowing out with the change in pressure that a tree could give, or is that just the hoses?

 

[Burnham]

The seals in a bottle jack can be blown out, sure. If that happens in the midst of lift that requires a jack, you got problems. It's a good idea to back up any jacking situation with wedges kept tight, I think.

The only reason for the springs is to ease the effort of returning the jack piston to compressed position. With a 20 ton Heiny, that's not an issue.

A way to hang on to the plate is good though, easy to lose when the tree commits.

 

[Al Smith]

Most will blow the seals but some have reliefs built into them .Depends on the jack .I've got a 20 ton about like that green one .Garage sale 20 bucks .

 

[Burnham]

I tend to be of the opinion that the 20 ton rating on that Hein-Werner is pretty conservative. It's shifted a few pretty large trees in it's time with me.

 

[woodworkingboy]

Wonder if you could tap for a gauge with your jack, Burnham?

 

[sierratree]

Burnham's input re: wind and pressure fluctuations makes real sense. also, would be important to have a pressure guage to read differences as they occur.....lift, etc. a buddy of mine told me yesterday that a silvey has a safety feature that if the jack fails, the plate will lock and won't retract. A good thing to keep the tree upright, but he also said, it makes it quite difficult to remove the jack until you can continue to wedge to get the pressure off of it.

Yesterday we did use a 20 ton with a welded steel plate to convince a roadside haz tree to head off into the woods instead over the roadway..........no cleanup. But my better judgement says if we plan on using a jack more often, just get the Silvey.........

 

[Reddog]

Wonder if you could tap for a gauge with your jack, Burnham?

Yes you just need to find the oil passage. We had gauges on some bottle jacks used for pressing bearings in machines.

The big advantage I see to the silves is the lighter weight when carrying them.

 

[woodworkingboy]

Guys that have a Silvey and use it regular, don't much seem to complain about the cost.

 

[Burnham]

I dunno...maybe plumb in to the fill port on the front of the base? I don't know much about the internal works, really.

Ahhh, I see Wally's post now.

 

[Burnham]

If you have Jerry Beranek's Fundamentals, read up on jack use there...it's the best you'll find on the subject.

If you don't have the the book, get it. Get it now.

 

[bonner1040]

I have been doing alot of research into this myself lately and oddly enough I just picked up a 20ton low profile bottle jack.

I think that for the price difference $2000-3000 vs. $39.99 unless you are a lumberjack or fell trees regularly in deeply wooded, remote locations the difference in weight is negligible.

Mostly I just picked one up to play with and experiment.

How do you estimate the weight of tree? What is a ballpark figure for something like a 36" 75' pin oak? Who knows?

What are the chances of the jack failing? What could cause this? How do the hydraulics behave as the tree commits and pressure releases?

The footprint of the jack is pretty small, i was thinking of buying two and using them in conjunction with eachother.

Does anybody have any pictures of jacks in use? I have seen the silvey in the old growth stuff but was looking for a more practical everyday use...

Is the angle of the top side of the back cut changing as the tree lifts really an issue? If you raise the tree 2-4" or say 10-20 degrees does that really make a difference? is it a hazard with the jack?

I have a lot of questions so if anyone feels like getting their brained picked let me know!

 

[sierratree]

got jerry's fundamentals book............great info

 

[Burnham]

 

[bonner1040]

Burnham's input re: wind and pressure fluctuations makes real sense. also, would be important to have a pressure guage to read differences as they occur.....lift, etc. a buddy of mine told me yesterday that a silvey has a safety feature that if the jack fails, the plate will lock and won't retract. A good thing to keep the tree upright, but he also said, it makes it quite difficult to remove the jack until you can continue to wedge to get the pressure off of it.

Yesterday we did use a 20 ton with a welded steel plate to convince a roadside haz tree to head off into the woods instead over the roadway..........no cleanup. But my better judgement says if we plan on using a jack more often, just get the Silvey.........

Do you cut the notch first? Or the jack seat first? Can you give me some more details on the process?

 

[sierratree]

found this link:

http://www.madsens1.com/pa_white.htm

 

[Burnham]

You can go at it more than one way.

 

[Al Smith]

A jack is just a little cylinder that pumps into a larger cylinder with a couple of ball check valves .

How most get blown out is if the load gets so much instead of using the standard jack handle they either stick a cheater pipe on it or the end of a 6 foot spud bar .

 

[bonner1040]

A jack is just a little cylinder that pumps into a larger cylinder with a couple of ball check valves .

How most get blown out is if the load gets so much instead of using the standard jack handle they either stick a cheater pipe on it or the end of a 6 foot spud bar .

So if i dont exceed one man power on the supplied small 2 foot handle then im for the most part safe?

 

[Jed]

Yeah: What Burnham has said all along here, plus what Jerry has said.

It's been far too long (about five months) since I've cracked the Fundamentals, but I wanna say that Jerry recounts some nasty stories about wind-related jack blow-outs; whether these were with a Silvey or a bottle jack, I don't know. Something tells me--probably Burnham--that that gauge is a really good thing.