wiley_p
Climbing Up
Those cuts are called "sap cuts" On some trees in the spring and early summer it is prudent to make them cause you will get fiber pull from the butt and it can throw you out of lead.
Top movement during topping
- Thread starter pantheraba
- Start date
- Replies 52
- Views 8K
Those cuts are called "sap cuts" On some trees in the spring and early summer it is prudent to make them cause you will get fiber pull from the butt and it can throw you out of lead.
R
RIVERRAT
Guest
Wing,sap, relief cut. It's weird the different names of the same such stuff. All it seems depending on the place you learned.
pantheraba
More biners!!!
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #28
I can't find my copy of "The Art and Science of Practical Rigging" but I am pretty sure they call those "kerf cuts"...they are to prevent fibers from the top from ripping down into your lanyard/safety that is just below the topping cut.
I have had Burnham caution me to not do them too close to the top cut...too close can compromise the hinge wood.
"Nipping the ears below the hinge may be usefull, for some species...I have never felt the need to do it when falling...up in the tree with a lanyard below your face is a different story. If you DO do it, go very shallow and at least 4 inches below the hinge. It's easy to compromise the most important holding wood, so be cautious there. Your hinge held fine, so you did well there.
"
The info comes from this thread:
http://gypoclimber.com/showthread.php?t=6352
I have had Burnham caution me to not do them too close to the top cut...too close can compromise the hinge wood.
"Nipping the ears below the hinge may be usefull, for some species...I have never felt the need to do it when falling...up in the tree with a lanyard below your face is a different story. If you DO do it, go very shallow and at least 4 inches below the hinge. It's easy to compromise the most important holding wood, so be cautious there. Your hinge held fine, so you did well there.
"
The info comes from this thread:
http://gypoclimber.com/showthread.php?t=6352
lumberjack
Young man on the go
Yeah, like scarf, notch, gob, underbed ect ect.
MasterBlaster
Administrator Emeritus
R
RIVERRAT
Guest
Exactly. Along these lines. Could some one please define Stump shot? I have heard it used in so many different ways
sotc
Dormant hero!!
broken hinge
MasterBlaster
Administrator Emeritus
STUMP SHOT: Two inches or more height difference between the horizontal cut of the face and the backcut. The difference in height establishes an anti-kick step that will prevent a tree from jumping back over the stump toward the faller.
From here, although I don't agree with their definition of a snipe.
B
Bounce
Guest
As I understand it, to reduce "stem sway" you make it so that the top is perpendicular to the stem when the hinge wood finally breaks, which is when the cut finally closes. I usually do this by starting my face cut with a regular notch and then finish with a humbolt (which can be thought of here as a really aggresive snipe), so I have actually removed two 45 degree notches of wood from the face cut, resulting in a tipping motion of 90 degrees before hinge breaks. Lastly, I continue to narrow the hinge wood right up until it breaks - not enough to eliminate it's ability to steer the top, but enough so that it breaks quick and easy with very little pop.
I can't really see how leaving a few branches would add enough mass to make much of difference. I understand the idea of how a more massive stem is harder to shove around than a less massive one. But we're talking a relatively small difference in weight on a lot of trees; in the trees I work in, the branches are probably about 15-20% of the trunk's mass. Sure it helps, but not enough so most people could notice.
I can't really see how leaving a few branches would add enough mass to make much of difference. I understand the idea of how a more massive stem is harder to shove around than a less massive one. But we're talking a relatively small difference in weight on a lot of trees; in the trees I work in, the branches are probably about 15-20% of the trunk's mass. Sure it helps, but not enough so most people could notice.
Mass dampening-(stuff left below the topping cut) works. Cutting more as it goes over helps. A snipe or opened face can help...oddly so can a narrow face and popping the top off before it moves very far. The video did not show an uncontrolled top departure but it sure kept whipping after the initial push back. I am a tree climbing chicken. I wouuld have moved up higher and taken a fraction of the weight and length in my topping cut.
R
RIVERRAT
Guest
I am not a logger or "BIG WOOD" forester.I would like to learn but will never be such a climber.Not at present any ways.
In cases such as this I am sick & tired of hearing the slant that is put on most "TREE WORK" that favors the logger & forester type work. That makes out any, that do any thing less than the biggest trees, less than achieving the benchmark.
Most work on trees now days is of a different nature.
I love what I do!!
I have a scar on my face & eye that would have caused some of other vocations to take work else where. It was an accident that I learned from & am gratefull wasn't worse....I am glad we have the likes of Wiley P, Burnham &
In cases such as this I am sick & tired of hearing the slant that is put on most "TREE WORK" that favors the logger & forester type work. That makes out any, that do any thing less than the biggest trees, less than achieving the benchmark.
Most work on trees now days is of a different nature.
I love what I do!!
I have a scar on my face & eye that would have caused some of other vocations to take work else where. It was an accident that I learned from & am gratefull wasn't worse....I am glad we have the likes of Wiley P, Burnham &
R
RIVERRAT
Guest
I am not a logger or "BIG WOOD" forester.I would like to learn but will never be such a climber.Not at present any ways.
In cases such as this I am sick & tired of hearing the slant that is put on most "TREE WORK" that favors the logger & forester type work. That makes out any, that do any thing less than the biggest trees, less than achieving the benchmark.
Most work on trees now days is of a different nature.
I love what I do!! Dont any of you try to make me think or feel less for it!
I have a scar on my face & eye that would have caused some of other vocations to take lesser work else where. It was an accident that I learned from & am gratefull wasn't worse.The fact is there are many others like myself here that just do "TREE WORK" ......To Be Continued
What was I taliking about /dammit I just nodded off/ Butch would you let me continue this tomorrow
In cases such as this I am sick & tired of hearing the slant that is put on most "TREE WORK" that favors the logger & forester type work. That makes out any, that do any thing less than the biggest trees, less than achieving the benchmark.
Most work on trees now days is of a different nature.
I love what I do!! Dont any of you try to make me think or feel less for it!
I have a scar on my face & eye that would have caused some of other vocations to take lesser work else where. It was an accident that I learned from & am gratefull wasn't worse.The fact is there are many others like myself here that just do "TREE WORK" ......To Be Continued
What was I taliking about /dammit I just nodded off/ Butch would you let me continue this tomorrow
F
Frans
Guest
RiverRat, my experience with tree work is getting trees down in small areas. It takes alot of skill which is a different skill set than dumping big trees. Each skill is it's own and one is not less than the other.
squisher
THE CALM ONE!!!!
Naww, hug a logger you'll never go back to trees.
R
RIVERRAT
Guest
Well I double posted last night. Forum seems fine now. I guess I was venting a bit from the aftermath of a conversation I had earlier on the phone.
The talk of leaving bottom limbs when popping a top out, while I am sure it works & is in fact something to keep in the mental tool box just got me thinking more about all of it .
Frans, like you said it is 2 different skill sets.That can at times cross over. To my way of thinking there is room for respect of both
The talk of leaving bottom limbs when popping a top out, while I am sure it works & is in fact something to keep in the mental tool box just got me thinking more about all of it .
Frans, like you said it is 2 different skill sets.That can at times cross over. To my way of thinking there is room for respect of both
F
Frans
Guest
no one has ever disrespected me for doing tree work and being a isa cert. arborist
squisher
THE CALM ONE!!!!
And I might add I've been disrespected many times in the past for being a logger. Try going out to a bar in Tofino(hippyland,Vancouver Island)after pulling a shift in camp :roll: .
People are dumb sometimes.
MasterBlaster
Administrator Emeritus
People are dumb a LOT of the time.
Old Monkey
Treehouser
- Joined
- Mar 9, 2005
- Messages
- 8,764
I don't top very many trees like that anymore unfortunately. I liked what Bounce said. In my mind I think it would be best to cut less than a 45 degree face cut so by the time the tree is perpendicular the holding wood has separated.
About leaving branches below the top in an even pattern like Frans mentioned, it is more than the weight added to the spar. Because the weight is held out from the trunk the balancing force is increased. Imagine trying to balance a teeter totter with two equally weighted objects two feet off center vs. at the ends. Having the weight farther from center adds more stability. That said I don't see myself having a use for that technique any time soon.
About leaving branches below the top in an even pattern like Frans mentioned, it is more than the weight added to the spar. Because the weight is held out from the trunk the balancing force is increased. Imagine trying to balance a teeter totter with two equally weighted objects two feet off center vs. at the ends. Having the weight farther from center adds more stability. That said I don't see myself having a use for that technique any time soon.
rumination
Migratory Hippie Arbolist
Here's an old classic.
<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/z8QmDm-jHWs&rel=1"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/z8QmDm-jHWs&rel=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>
<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/z8QmDm-jHWs&rel=1"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/z8QmDm-jHWs&rel=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>
MasterBlaster
Administrator Emeritus
I can't believe the saw didn't kill him!
