The Screw-Gate 'Biner

[Burnham]

A cop that reports that there were never any cases of perp abuse will have a well documented history of that.
Burn, I do not mean to ram horns with you, but you've got to be f***ing joking me if you want me to believe that since there are no gov't. documented cases of screw gate failure, then it's a "given" that they don't exist ?
I refuse to argue about that.
All I know is from my own experience, I cannot rely on the screw-gate 'biner 100%.
I suspect that's my fault, since I have zero experience in the field. I do not mean that sarcasticallly... I truly have no experience.
I just know that my screw-gate 'biner can't be far enough away from me.
That speaks for my inexperience, in the truest fashion.

T, we are not even close to ramming horns . I can make my point, you can make yours, we can rebutt each other, no problem on my end, girl.

I think perhaps you are misinterpreting my post. I have not said that "the gov't" has no documented cases of injury or death caused by use of screwlock biners for life support in tree climbing. That is clearly untrue...there are enough cases of exactly that happening to have caused concern. These cases are, to the best of my knowlege, within the private sector. It's part of my job to follow this stuff, and I take it pretty seriously.

I clearly limited my comments to tree climbers within the USFS tree climbing program...this is a discrete population of workers that operate under a heavily organized structure of training, certification, and tri-annually required re-certification. The negative consequenses for an employee and their supervision chain are quite unpleasant if a climber operates off the reservation, so to speak.

The FS system for keeping track of accidents, and the required protocols for reporting them are equally well regimented. Of course, an incident where no injury requireing medical care or lost time from work could easily run under the radar, but to receive compensation for medical care, and qualify for workman's comp., the paperwork HAS to be filed. The consequenses of dodging these requirements are even more stringent than those I mentioned above.

So I remain confident that within the sphere in which I operate, use of screwlock biners has not been the cause of injury or death. This is an admittedly limited sphere, but one I know pretty intimately.

No Bivy makes the point succinctly...screwlock biners don't fail very often, it's the operator error that results in problems.

And I say again, using autolocks relieves a climber not one iota of the need to check the security of her biner every single time it is put in play.

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

in rigging single use, non-violent, pretightend and aligned loads i've used non-locking a lot. Sometimes will use spin as 3rd life attatchmeant. Here i too favour less joggled, continuously loaded and aligned setup, for short, checked periods; with the lil'red notice light flashing in the back of my head. Another thing i'll due is load with gate pointing down, theorizing less chance of spinning to open positing uphill; but that is probably jest a mind set.

Most of my screw gates are steel i have left. So generally always have one as alternative to the non-locking foins and dynemma sets i have for standard rigging, and as the only steel, doubling as a throw weight, and 3rd tie options.

 

[xtremetrees]

I like a screw gate! I use a steel one(aluminum ain't heavy enough, on the flinging end of my rope safety. In cold weather I wear gloves and the auto lock slows me down. Normally I dont carry two safeties and I dont throwball all my removals so when I detach my rope lanyard, fling it over limb or whatever, I want attached back to the tree as quickly as possible. Then I set back relax and screw it down. I will probably continue using screwgates on my safety because I dont have two hands to work a auto lock. One hand is busy hanging on! I use a auto lock at my gibbs attachment point. Fire it and forget it, Edit (almost)
I never use screw gate biners to crab into a rope to rapell on (ie munter hitch.) The twisting of the rope as it runs could very easily unscrew the lock and thus escape the biner! Ive never seen the rope escape a screw gate but I theorize like kenny.

 

[Burnham]

Why not use a snaphook on your lanyard, R? Autolock and easy on/off, both in one device. That's my preference.

I use the autolock biners for all life support functions...no ifs, ands, or buts. I have a position as a mentor and role model for a goodly number of FS climbers nation-wide, so it's just not an option for me to skate the standards. I am used to them, and can open the styles I like one-handed in the dark, behind my back, either hand. But I don't think changeing to them from screwlocks has improved my personal safety...just my opinion, could be wrong, have been before .

 

[xtremetrees]

Why not use a snaphook on your lanyard, R? Autolock and easy on/off, both in one device. That's my preference.

.

Nice suggestion

 

[Bounce]

if you or anyone else thinks that by using an autolock biner you have either prevented the possibility that it will fail to lock, or that you have made it such that you no longer need to check the biner each time you use it, you are sadly mistaken.

Well said Burnham. A lot of the risks of using a screw locking biner can be avoided simply by inspecting it regularly as you climb. Just because somebody uses a positive locking biner doesn't mean they no longer have to do this.

 

[Blinky]

Justin, that's funny to read that... I do almost the same thing. My 2nd crotch biner is a steel screwlock.

My eyesplice biner is a steel triple lock and my hitch biner is an HMS ball lock. I use a snap on my lanyard though.

 

[Bounce]

What is a "positron"? I googled it and found that it is the antimatter couterpart to the electron. It sure sounds expensive!

 

[Burnham]

New item for Wesspur! Black hole for disposal of slash!

 

[Burnham]

Here ya go, Sean.

http://www.bdel.com/gear/positron_screw.php

 

[SkwerI]

Sean, here's a couple pictures of the Positron in screwgate and non locking versions. There is also a bent gate version.

http://www.gearexpress.biz/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=G&Product_Code=2222SG

http://www.gearexpress.biz/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=G&Product_Code=2222

 

[Burnham]

We are on this like you know what, eh Brian?

 

[SkwerI]

Not much gets past us, B!

 

[Frans]

I see alot of guys struggling with the auto lock biners.

You have to cradle the spine of the biner in your hand with the hinge of the gate closest to your index finger and thumb.
work the gate open by pushing downwards with your thumb and fingers.
Make sense?

 

[Bounce]

Looking at the Positron, I'm wondering what makes it so special. I see that it's got a keylock gate to prevent snagging and a standard d shape, but a lot of biners have those features. Is it particularly strong or lightweight? Is it made from that special alloy that attracts women (the proverbial chick magnet)? How come you guys like this one so much?

 

[Burnham]

It's the size, Sean. They are smaller than average, more like a ISC mighty mouse.

 

[TC3]

The whole idea is to bring up discussion.

 

[Stumper]

Sean, As Burnham said-the Positrons are quite small and lightweight.-Notably smaller than the Mighty Mouse in fact, AND they are very smooth operating little jewels.

 

[sotc]

i dont use screw locks at all. i had an auto locker come open on my flip line once in a very brushy tree, the nice thing is as long as it was loaded it wouldnt come off and would re lock. a screw gate would simply remain non locking. i hope that was the only time thats happened and i just noticed it but i wont allow my crew to climb on them

 

[Bounce]

If it isn't too much trouble, can somebody tell me what the gate opening is on the Positron? I've noticed that the gate opening usually tends to limit how small a biner can be; just wondering if this one has a particularly small opening as a result of its size.

 

[SkwerI]

Actually Sean, the Positron has a very good opening for it's size. Matter of fact, PM me with your addy and I'll send you one. I have about 2 dozen of them and rarely use them any more. You want a screwlock or non locking?

 

[TC3]

Actually Sean, the Positron has a very good opening for it's size. Matter of fact, PM me with your addy and I'll send you one. I have about 2 dozen of them and rarely use them any more. You want a screwlock or non locking?

You hardly use them any more because ???

 

[treetx]

Funny, other disciplines where you hang your life on a 'biner wouldn't dream of using aluminum 'biners yet use screw gates as SOP....go figure?

 

[Burnham]

If it isn't too much trouble, can somebody tell me what the gate opening is on the Positron? I've noticed that the gate opening usually tends to limit how small a biner can be; just wondering if this one has a particularly small opening as a result of its size.

The Black Diamond website says the gate opening for the screwlock Positron is 21mm, or 0.73 inches. It's rated at 25 kN, and weighs 56g., or 2 oz.

The stock is definitely smaller than the ISC MM.

 

[Blinky]

I can't count how many times I've trusted and fallen on lowly little aluminum flip gate biners. I own about 30 that are at least 20 years old. I read stories about rope looping and opening the gate but it never happened to anyone I know. I owned one Bonatti screw lock for rappelling on a figure eight.

Now I have half a dozen ball locks and another half dozen assorted triple action types, mostly steel. Work is different, trees are different... I like a nice Petzl ball lock biner. But I keep a steel screw lock on my gear loop all the time.