Al Smith
Mac Daddy
Well now it's been my observation that 10 up works great on Oregon 72 but not so good on Stihl or Carlton .For some reason on the later two it just doesn't cut as good .
The portable chainsaw and trimmer stand
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HolmenTree
Banned
Like I said Al most companies no longer specify 10 degrees. Oregon still does for chisel LPX LGX chain. Stihl for example once did for their Rapid Super chisel chain.
Here I write what my 1992 Stihl 066 owners manual says on page 52:
.for Super chains hold the file so that
it slopes slightly upwards-
about 10 degrees.
[this does not apply if you use your
chain mostly for cutting softwood in
the mild season- no frost]
Willard.
Al Smith
Mac Daddy
Actually I became aware of this after I bought some stuff made by Carlton that Baileys sold .Arbor Pro or something like that .It cut okay until the first time I filed it .Pissed me off .
Good old Crofter showed me the error of my ways because I was cutting the 10 up instead of straight across .It has something to do with the difference of the side plates between Oregon and Carlton .What the exact diff was I never took the time to figure out .
Good old Crofter showed me the error of my ways because I was cutting the 10 up instead of straight across .It has something to do with the difference of the side plates between Oregon and Carlton .What the exact diff was I never took the time to figure out .
HolmenTree
Banned
Carlton has less "hook" in the side pltes then what Oregon has. When you filed that chain 10 degrees up it took more hook out of the Carlton ,thats where you noticed the difference.
Willard.
Magnus
TreeHouser
Different chains often have different shape and thickness of cutter and side/top plate. Thru the years a lot has been tested and thought to be the best. The Super 20 and Super 70 chains have been around for a long time...
When the x chains came they had a round drive link, it would jump the bar as the little groove that is cut in front of drive link was not there. This is gone now and the chain work again.
With a interest and good file you can experiment and see what is best for you. Not to run a saw the same so they usually adapt filing for saw to perform better.
One thing that all have in common is that it needs to be really sharp.
It is really hard to know were to start talking. There is alway's stuff to learn and if you tell same thing they heard for 20 years you just waste breath.
Best is to find out how much they know and go from there. To tell what level of skill there is in a customer that come I usually ask how they think a new chain cut.
If they say it is good or better than I can get I know there is no need to go to the finer pointers and they get general filing advice.
A new chain is not done, it has lots left to take out of it especially in duration, but also sharpness and shape.
Chains and filing is a big subject with lots to learn if there is interest. I doubt one can learn all there is to know in a lifetime.
When the x chains came they had a round drive link, it would jump the bar as the little groove that is cut in front of drive link was not there. This is gone now and the chain work again.
With a interest and good file you can experiment and see what is best for you. Not to run a saw the same so they usually adapt filing for saw to perform better.
One thing that all have in common is that it needs to be really sharp.
It is really hard to know were to start talking. There is alway's stuff to learn and if you tell same thing they heard for 20 years you just waste breath.
Best is to find out how much they know and go from there. To tell what level of skill there is in a customer that come I usually ask how they think a new chain cut.
If they say it is good or better than I can get I know there is no need to go to the finer pointers and they get general filing advice.
A new chain is not done, it has lots left to take out of it especially in duration, but also sharpness and shape.
Chains and filing is a big subject with lots to learn if there is interest. I doubt one can learn all there is to know in a lifetime.
Magnus
TreeHouser
I cut a lot of dry hardwood and have a very tiny hook on my chains. It gives a stronger corner that hold edge better and as long as it is sharp it will cut just as fast.
With a larger hook you sometimes get the wrong movement in the tooth. Excessive wear on bar and rivets is result among with a power loss.
Same thing with the settings of the rider. The higher it is the better it is. If it is high you get a thin flake that can culrl up and fill the space between cutter and rider completely. This allow cutter to work more efficiant.
It also hold rpm up so chain speed is high and constant.
With a larger hook you sometimes get the wrong movement in the tooth. Excessive wear on bar and rivets is result among with a power loss.
Same thing with the settings of the rider. The higher it is the better it is. If it is high you get a thin flake that can culrl up and fill the space between cutter and rider completely. This allow cutter to work more efficiant.
It also hold rpm up so chain speed is high and constant.
sotc
Dormant hero!!
Chain nerds
HolmenTree
Banned
Keep listening you will thank us later
As I said before the best accessory for a good bar and chain is a good powerhead.
Willard
sotc
Dormant hero!!
HolmenTree
Banned
Magnus I actually liked that chain. Oregon had a good design idea there. With a "rudder drive link" alternating with a normal hooked drive link, the chain cut really smooth and the cutting action was more stable in the kerf. Less vibration, smoother action running in and out of the rim sprocket and sprocket nose.
But the design was discontinued because of too many complaints of chain derailing. With many different variables in all the different powerheads, bars and drive link counts, room for error was too great for Oregon.
The main problem was the gap between the tail of the bar and the drive sprocket. Too much gap and the chain derails easily.
If I have a well worn chain on my saw with lots of cutter life left and the gap is getting too big I will take a link out of the chain. I never had a derailing problem even with the small radius safety bar noses we were forced to use when logging.
I'm building a Oregon competition race chain at the moment and it will have different parts from designs over the last 30 yrs. One of them will be the round rudder drinks.
Willard.
Magnus
TreeHouser
You are the first I hear that actually liked it.
I ran it too quite a bit. I could not get it to work properly as it was jumping all the time and trashed rims and drivers. It would not enter the rim or sprocket correct.
After this they had chains with every other normal, that worked better, and now when they have all normal it never jumps... As usual.
I did some investigating on this and talked to Blount and many dealers about it. With a marker it was easy to see what wasn't working properly.
None of the customers liked it or got it to work. Not here or from any of those I talked to.
I found it strange so I talked to a couple more about it a bit higher up.
After a while it was clear this would not work..... Excessive wear on sprockets, rims and bar nose sprockets.
Magnus
TreeHouser
How many pins were in the small bar sprockets you ran it on?
I tested 11 and 9 and only the first X chains that came out in Super 70 series chain.
Stretching wasn't the problem as I understand it....
I tested 11 and 9 and only the first X chains that came out in Super 70 series chain.
Stretching wasn't the problem as I understand it....
HolmenTree
Banned
I used the last run of that X rudder chain before they were discontinued and it worked great for me. I believe there was a design flaw in the early chain when at about the same time Oregon was introducing the "anti-vibe" [ arrow stamped on the cutter]. The transition matching the rudder drive link to the anti-vibe may have been the issue.
I used the Oregon 9 pin Guard Tip and the newer Double Guard safety tips and Windsor's 9 pin Mini Pro tips. all in 3/8.
Here is a picture from 1983 where I was using my Jonsered 630 work saw at a competition. At the time I was field testing for Oregon in the bush logging. Look close and you can see the world's very first prototype Power Match bar, also under the sprocket cover is the very first prototype radial ported rim sprocket.
Right here in this photo is history... the very first Power Match bar in the world and one of the best logging saws ever.
Willard.
Willard.
Magnus
TreeHouser
Did you get to keep it?
If I remember correct the reels I got from was not of the very early.. I know a few that did get them.
The last was as said with every other with normal drive link. I got a reel of them here (wish I didn't) this test was costly to many, me included....
Powermatch was a big deal when it came as it was better than the three rivet noses. It was not a new invention though, just new product.
If I remember correct the reels I got from was not of the very early.. I know a few that did get them.
The last was as said with every other with normal drive link. I got a reel of them here (wish I didn't) this test was costly to many, me included....
Powermatch was a big deal when it came as it was better than the three rivet noses. It was not a new invention though, just new product.
HolmenTree
Banned
No The bar and rim had to go back to the factory in Portland Oregon for final testing. Yes it would have been great to keep it as a collectors item. From 1980 to 1981 I also field tested the first Oregon 72 LG chain now a days called the 72 LGX. The Oregon field engineer I worked with was Gary Walrath now long retired , you can google Gary up on his Iron Horse Hotsaw site and receive some very interesting reading. www.hotsaw.com
Willard.
Magnus
TreeHouser
I think I exchanged a couple E-mails with him a few years ago...
It is a nice page.
He states they started competing with his first bike saw in '83.
I believe there were others that had running bike saws before that, but still good reading.
It is a nice page.
He states they started competing with his first bike saw in '83.
I believe there were others that had running bike saws before that, but still good reading.
woodworkingboy
TreeHouser
Willard, what did you like about the Jonesred?
HolmenTree
Banned
The Jonsered 630 I owned is a rebadged Husqvarna 162. When the 162 was introduced in 1975-76 it revolutionized the industry with a design that is still used today 35 yrs later like the 346XP for example.
The Jonsered 630 is about the weight of a Stihl 044 or Husqvarna 372. At the same time in 1983 I owned a Stihl 038AV, both the 630 and 038 were 61cc but the Stihl was almost 2 lbs heavier and alot less cutting speed then the Jonsered.
The Jonsered 630 was a very very reliable saw plus excellent balance and ergonomics. I preferred the straight top handle over the 162 Husqvarna angled handle and the 630 had a easier to use starter handle with a different angle of pull then the 162.
The newer Jonsered 670 was 67cc with more power but burned more gas with more frequent trips to the gas can and didn't have the durability that the 630 had. I still see a few 630s in service today in 8 hr a day logging.
Willard.
Al Smith
Mac Daddy
A couple years ago I did some work on a gents 630 J-red .In was one of only three J-reds I ever worked on or have even seen for that matter .
From my observation it was indeed a little power house as compaired to a stock 038 Av .Now a little enhancement to the Stihl and the roles were reversed .Then again I supposed if you tweeked the J-Red it might reverse again for all I know .
From my observation it was indeed a little power house as compaired to a stock 038 Av .Now a little enhancement to the Stihl and the roles were reversed .Then again I supposed if you tweeked the J-Red it might reverse again for all I know .
HolmenTree
Banned
The first problem the 038 had was it had that tiny carb, but the biggest problem was the Stihl was alot heavier. I did a woods porting job on that Jonserded 630 and was beating much larger saws some with 90cc and oversized rim sprockets in that small log.
Willard.
HolmenTree
Banned
I agree Stig. I remember in the late 1970s when I was logging all Jonsereds had to offer in that class was the 621. Myself and my 2 older brothers along with most other guys were faithful Jonsereds users.
But while working alongside a couple of new French Canadien loggers from Quebec who brought these "new" Husqvarna 162s with them I had my first taste of this saw. Balance and speed I never felt before. Even the chainbrake was adjustable and looked like some high tech device from Star Wars. The Jonsered had a crappy bent tube and a little pad for a chain brake.
When I first saw the 162 I laughed at the decal on the sprocket cover that said "Professional". But after trying one out I was convinced it was a professional saw.
Willard.
HolmenTree
Banned
I have to derail this thread one more time with something I forgot to mention about one more reason why I like the Jonsered 630 over its cousin the Husqvarna 162.
The Jonsered had intergrated choke and fast idle in one control. It took Husqvarna many years later to do the same.
Willard.
Magnus
TreeHouser
At this time in History, Husqvarna called the shots of what to do with the saws.
The last saws Jonsereds made by them self as independent company was 410, 510, 910.
After this Elux was in control.
The last saws Jonsereds made by them self as independent company was 410, 510, 910.
After this Elux was in control.
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