The Humboldt is primarily for speed of production

[davidwyby]

Change my mind 😆

I saw people arguing somewhere again about hum vs. conv as if one is right and one wrong vs. depending on the tree and goals. We all know the reasons folks argue it back and forth, pros and cons.

While watching experienced Wes coast fallers it occurred to me that most of what they do is for speed. Two cuts and the wedge falls out assuming you line your cuts up, and one doesn’t need to stop and get an axe and beat it out…or even move it by hand. One more cut and the tree is over, assuming the lean is right. If not, wedges and axe come out often while still cutting, and then she goes. Same goes for long bars…all cuts are made from one position with no wasted time or motion/effort.

 

[stikine]

It's not really about speed. Many West Coast mills don't want conventional undercuts on the butt log because it may reduce log scale. The more practical reason, "on steep ground" is to be able to reach and match your cuts from the high uphill side of the tree.

 

[CurSedVoyce]

This^

 

[Dave Shepard]

I use the Humboldt to get a square end on my logs. I've been burned many times by wide face cuts ruining a timber.

 

[davidwyby]

Aw, shucks, ok, mind changed.

The steep ground is one I thought of but don’t often see mentioned…while standing on steep ground in the PNW scheming how I’d whack that “strip”.

But it IS fast! 😆🤙🏻

 

[davidwyby]

This^

How you doing? Might be up your way Oct if you’ve got anything I can help with.

 

[BIGTWIG]

Speed and production are the name of the game in logging. You can also be fast and productive at going broke.
A conventional cut is burning money when you’re paid by tonnage or board footage.
Slamming tops, breaking logs, and stump shot are going to waste sawlogs too. You can’t make up for lost sawlogs on timber sales.
The Humboldt maximizes yield, is easier to skid over, and sets the tree on the ground softer.

 

[BIGTWIG]

 

[treebogan]

I never thought Montana looked like that! Trees and everything!

Is that a Madill swing-yarder?

 

[BIGTWIG]

@treebogan

No it is a Skagit Yarder.

 

[davidwyby]

It was good to see and hear words like Skagit last week...


(looks like AZ to me)

 

[cory]

The Humboldt maximizes yield, i

Isn't it kind of a wash since you usually have to cut the tree a bit higher with a Humboldt vs a bit lower with conventional?

 

[BIGTWIG]

@cory
Maybe on flat ground, but it’s easy to cut low on the downhill side of skyline ground.

 

[SeanKroll]

I think you will be cutting out flare more than good wood, but I'm not a logger.

 

[davidwyby]

Eastern $$$ wood is worth trimming flares off. Western is volume...speed. Eastern wood can't have fiber pull. Western doesn't seem to be a big deal.

Western tree trunks I'd wager are 2-3 times longer...speed/volume...

 

[cory]

I remember in 1980 I started cutting humboldts while logging in CT. In a Marlborough ad I noticed all the square butt logs in a pic of a PNW landinging, I said to myself hmmm, that's how the pros do it, I I'll try it.
Back then, I thought the only reason was to make square butts for the mill, didn't realize the difference in the log dropping off the stump.

 

[davidwyby]

That last bit reminded me of something I’ve always wanted to learn…how to make them jump off the stump. Maybe a kind of closed conventional.

 

[Kaveman]

To me, it's all in how it falls. The Humboldt face/notch lays the tree down without smashing the tops. Butt end first, with the top following.

Also, the "conventional" notch is aestheticly offensive. It looks like crap. I shouldn't feel like I need to square the log.

Also, around here, a proper Humboldt is the mark of the professional, whereas the conventional notch indicates a homeowner, likely from back east. The real hacks don't use face cuts, but angled backcuts/ slash cuts.

 

[SeanKroll]

Fiber pull matters in soft wood, too, but not like hardwood.

 

[davidwyby]

To me, it's all in how it falls. The Humboldt face/notch lays the tree down without smashing the tops. Butt end first, with the top following.

Also, the "conventional" notch is aestheticly offensive. It looks like crap. I shouldn't feel like I need to square the log.

Also, around here, a proper Humboldt is the mark of the professional, whereas the conventional notch indicates a homeowner, likely from back east. The real hacks don't use face cuts, but angled backcuts/ slash cuts.

Probably because back east the fallers use a conventional, but really it’s usually just a flare trim. HO isn’t going to know the difference.

 

[Gypo]

We call conventional faces "farmer faces."

 

[pete mctree]

With tall tree a foot or so at the bottom lost is of no significance. However in shorter trees, especially higher value ones, every inch counts. If I was to waste timber with a Humboldt unnecessarily I would be out of a job pronto. As for speed - no difference

 

[SeanKroll]

Pete, in what way would a Humboldt waste wood in your logging scenarios?

 

[davidwyby]

Not pete, and I hope he will comment, but this is how I understand it from watching and conversing with eastern (hardwood/veneerwood) and western (conifer) cutters.

Maybe I’ll just leave the chicken scratches for Pete to expound on.

 

[CurSedVoyce]

Low stumps are required in some places.
And hard wood is more valuable in shorter logs. Think about hard wood flooring.. you glue it together to make it wider or longer. Cabinetry is a good example. Humbolts on the west coast are often close to the uphill part of the slope as the face is often on the down hill. Easy to cut as well. A convetional face on a steep down hill slope would be often above your head.
Mills like a square butt out here. They dont lose the whole flare.
Conventional cuts on hard woods often have the flares cut flush to the stem and just square the butt a little. Harvesters/forwarders need low stumps that a conventional can provide.