SRT Question

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Wagnaw said:
So, It's all snowy here, and I'm not working today. I figured it would be a good day to get out and take pictures.

Here is a step by step of how I go about SRT usually. I like to use my hitch that I work off of as the back up, so I don't have to carry around extra gear. The last picture shows how I pack up the acender and strap before hanging it away on my saddle. The third pic is to give an idea of how I disconnect my working hitch from the ascender, but depending on the type of ascender you use, it'll be different. I like to tuck the top of my CMI ascender between the micropulley and the one leg of my VT. When I get to the top and lanyard in, just pull the carabiner out enough to lose the ascender, then reclip the VT leg.
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I follow the idea of switching over to double rope once you reach tie-in, but what I can't figure is, where is the second leg of rope while you're ascending the single leg? Do you have it run up to the limb, or whatever with a biner?
 
treesmith said:
I follow the idea of switching over to double rope once you reach tie-in, but what I can't figure is, where is the second leg of rope while you're ascending the single leg? Do you have it run up to the limb, or whatever with a biner?
Click to expand...

You can do a few things... I either tie a running bowline around the limb I'm ascending to (which means you have to go ALL the way to your tie-in to begin working), OR you can run it over a limb and back down to the base of the tree where it is anchored by some means. If you anchor the one end, you can stop where ever you want, lanyard in, and have your ground person untie the anchored end. ...pull up the slack, tie everything together, and walla! 8)
 
Up the limb, over the limb and tie off at the base or another tree. Also you can have a groundie belay you on a porty, biner, or figure 8 in case you have to be lowered or need more line played out.... I prefer tied below as I can have Rob let the line go and I can get to work sooner than my tie in point (TIP).
Do you have The Tree Climbers Companion yet treesmith?? You should get it if you don't have it yet..
 
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  • #54
CurSedVoyce said:
Up the limb, over the limb and tie off at the base or another tree. Also you can have a groundie belay you on a porty, biner, or figure 8 in case you have to be lowered or need more line played out.... I prefer tied below as I can have Rob let the line go and I can get to work sooner than my tie in point (TIP).
Do you have The Tree Climbers Companion yet treesmith?? You should get it if you don't have it yet..
Click to expand...

Got it...read it...still, with all the SRT options out there, I wanted some opinions before stepping out...on a limb??? I like the looks of the FROG, but also like the "custom" systems" that emr and Wagnaw depicted. (Wagnaw, do you footlock with that outfit, or use a pantin?) Once I settle on what I want and spend the money, I'll feel like a fool for waiting so long. Thanks again guys, and keep the tips coming!
 
I footlock with all the set-ups I posted pics of. pantins are really nice though, especially for those who are trying these techniques for the first time. It's definitely worth the investment. I know of several people who climb with theirs all the time.
 
I like the method where you anchor at the base of the tree. I am not a fan of the running bowline because it causes rope on rope rubbing. I know there is not much movement, but it still concerns me that all the bounce could cause the bowline to ware through. I have seen climbers attach a delta or screwlink instead of a running bowline to over come this problem. I do like the added benefit of a trunk anchor being able to belay the climber. A trunk anchor can be as simple as a sling, a muenter hitch tied on a biner and finally backed up with a prussik.
 
How can you say that a running bowline with rope on rope friction can never ware through. I know the chances are slim, but why stake you life on it. Anyway I feel it is worth mentioning if we are having a discussion on the pros and cons of different methods. Isn't that the point of this?
 
Butch is right. In the setup as described using a running Bowline to tie off the entry line, there should be no concern with wear through. It is good to prethink possible reasons for failure but think of all the different applications the running Bowline is used for without failure. Our climbing lines are highly abrasion resistant by design and our weight, in this situation, is well within the working limitations of the running bowline.

I also prefer the line tied off at the base of the tree but for all the other reasons that have been mentioned.

Dave
 
Whether it is shooting a running bowline up or anchoring at the base of the tree, I like to use two different ropes. One to use for SRT, and one to use for my DdRT. My DdRT with the friction hitch is already set before I leave the ground. That way when I get up there all I have to to is tie in and go to work.
 
emr said:
Anyway I feel it is worth mentioning if we are having a discussion on the pros and cons of different methods. Isn't that the point of this?
Click to expand...

But of course! Did I post something to the contrary? :?

emr said:
How can you say that a running bowline with rope on rope friction can never ware through.
Click to expand...

It's easy, I say it just like this, "It will NOT wear through." :)
 
FJR said:
Whether it is shooting a running bowline up or anchoring at the base of the tree, I like to use two different ropes. One to use for SRT, and one to use for my DdRT. My DdRT with the friction hitch is already set before I leave the ground. That way when I get up there all I have to to is tie in and go to work.
Click to expand...

That, plus then you can pick the best rope for each job...arbo rope for the DbRT, full on static for the SRT.
 
Burnham, can I ask you to clarify something for me. I thought most arborist ropes were almost static?
 
stig said:
Burnham, can I ask you to clarify something for me. I thought most arborist ropes were almost static?
Click to expand...

By most definitions, looking at manufacturer's percent stretch under load, arb lines fall into what I call semi-static. They are generally half or less the stretch of a dynamic kernmantle rope that would be used by a rock climber.

Full on statics display at least half again less stretch than arb ropes, as compared to full on dynamics.

It can be really difficult to compare the stretch percentages of ropes across different manufacturers. They use different loads, some use 200 lbs., some 400lbs. and some a percentage of tensile strength at which to rate percentage stretch...one has to extrapolate to some degree. But given all that my research would lead me to generalize that on average, dynamic ropes stretch about +8% at working load, arb (semi-static)ropes about 4%, and statics about 1.5% or less.

At tensile strength limits the numbers really get out there for dynamic ropes, some claim up to 60% stretch just before breaking.
 
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Running bowline for the most part here... And if you are worried about wear..... Well, chances are you will not tie the bowline in the same place twice... As tree men we "always inspect" our ropes prior to ascent... Right? Seeing the damage would more occur at the end of the hank...easily fixed by shortening in my book...
The friction device or biner at the base is definitely great if you have a groundie that can work with you in case of emergency...
And I love my black static kermantle (1/2") for SRT
It is holding up just fine BTW from the running bowline. :)
 
I would say that the amount of twist/rubbing going on in the running bowline is pretty nil. Now... if you are working off of the single line with a dynamic system, like the 'weapon', you may cause more movement in the running bowline. Just for ascent though, there shouldn't be much or any movement in the bowline to be worried about, even if you were worried about it.

If I have a ground person free, I'll almost always tie off to the base, but if there's a lot of set up going on keeping the groundie busy(and if the limb is easy to isolate), I'll tie a running bowline to keep myself low maintenance. :D
 
The 11mm static line I have has 1.8% at 300lb and 3.0% at 600lb with 6700 lb MBS.
 
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