Splice or no splice

[canadianclimber]

Just wondering how everyone likes there rigging line set up with or with out a splice?

About to order a new rope. I've always just ran with a knot. Any thoughts if the splice is weaker then the knot?

Looking at the Sterling atlas 1/2 or the Teufelberger sirius 1/2. Atlas seems to have a lot larger Breaking strength. 11500 vs 7800lbs

 

[Altissimus]

Always no splice on my rig lines , my reasoning is wear and utility. Just like Skidder Cable , the end of the line takes the beat and usually eventually gets shortened ... that in mind I can try to even wear by switching ends some. Also setting lines , a splice end may not pull through stuff.

 

[CurSedVoyce]

No splice on rigging lines or climb lines. Waste of money and time. You'll just be cutting them off.
Now on dead eyes, loopies. Absolutely.
And certain prussics in certain applications, yes.

 

[friedrich]

i splice my rigging line to retain maximum wll. 5/8“ line knotted has the approximate wll of 1/2“ spliced. i resplice my rigging lines about 3-4 times, after that they are used for pulling material on the ground.

 

[flushcut]

I like splices. I splice one end and use that until is starts getting beat up or I start second guessing it, cut the splice off and splice up the other end of the line and when that starts getting beat up I down grade the line to mud work or retire it all together.

 

[lxskllr]

Anyone not use splices at all aside from the usual slings and stuff? What I like about rope is there's infinite ways to use it. It's a blank slate that can be anything you want with the addition of some knots. When splices are added it's function becomes more fixed, especially with regards to hitch cord where length adjustment can only be made by changing hitches/wraps which therefore changes function. I get why splices are good for strength and convenience, but it seems like something gets lost when splices are introduced.

 

[Treeaddict]

I’m all for splicing everywhere but rigging. I’m not very experienced but my 2 cents.

 

[Treeaddict]

“To splice or not to splice, that is the question”
William Shake-tree

 

[stig]

I’m all for slicing everywhere but rigging. I’m not very experienced but my 2 cents.

I try not to slice any of my lines

I use splices on everything.

 

[canadianclimber]

All my climbing lines have splices till they're to beat up then I just use knots. Unfortunately splicing ropes is not a skill I possess(apart from the simple loopie or whoopie) and no one locally does it. Rigging lines have never been spliced.

 

[Tommy_B]

Splices on everything except Rigging rope for me. Not sure I understand the reasoning behind splices being a waste of money and time so would be interested to hear why that was thrown out there. That being said, I'm capable of splicing most ropes so maybe I'm biased. If I was cutting my rope and having to pay someone else to resplice, maybe I would be agreeing!!

 

[friedrich]

Folks boast of strength retention of splices over knots…then kindly remind you of working load limits…seems redundant to me. If my knot retains 70% of tensile…but I’m limiting myself by the 5:1 rule…I’m well within safe limits. The times I’ve actually broken rigging lines was almost always due to a weak spot a few feet up, usually a nick or abrasion from where the running bowline had repeatedly chafed the standing line under load. Aside from that, the next likely place to break is in the eye of the RB, which is identical to the eye of a splice, in that it is a single leg of the rope, whatever it may be.

so you are saying that a splice and a running bowline has the same strength?

i think we have a different take how we work out our wll. i look at the guestimated mbs of my system (or rope, sling) and from there work with a 10:1. knotted 5/8“ line is 3500-4000 kg mbs, i would try to cut at 350-400kg. spliced 5/8“ line is 6000-6500 kg mbs, i would try to cut at 1/10 of that.

5:1 for ropes and dynamic rigging is too low of a safety factor for me and cycles to failure will bite..

 

[CurSedVoyce]

I am the do everything in my company Tommy. My time is extremely valuable. What little I have. Especially since is balanced between family, kids and work. I am the mechanic, the climber, the sales, the book keeper...
Why on earth would I spend my time making a splice I will inevitably cut off and then either use a knot or again take time to splice it. I tie knots quickly and efficiently. I use crabs where I can tie a knot and leave it for a while to lower with.
The end of any rope takes a beating. You dont need a habit of nicking a line to see it. Rarely is the actual splice nicked anyway if and when that happens. But if the rope is..
I understand why some folks like splices. I understand why some folks love to splice. Honestly. My hands hurt after doing it making it not an enjoyable task.
I will continue to splice my dead eyes and loopies in Tenex. Fast, easy and once its used up, the whole thing is retired. Best use of time.
Edit :
And if I NEED a tight eye on a prussic, I gladly pay someone to do it. They are cheaper

 

[Treeaddict]

I try not to slice any of my lines

I use splices on everything.

Good eye! Slicing is definitely bad!

 

[flushcut]

“To splice or not to splice, that is the question”
William Shake-tree

“Cry havoc! And let slip the final bury!”
“Tis better to suffer the blisters and fids of outrageous rigging”

 

[flushcut]

I am the do everything in my company Tommy. My time is extremely valuable. What little I have. Especially since is balanced between family, kids and work. I am the mechanic, the climber, the sales, the book keeper...
Why on earth would I spend my time making a splice

Why? You ask because we as tree people need to abuse ourselves and time in new and imaginative ways that aren’t conceivable to the rest of the population. Lol

 

[flushcut]

20% is 2000 pounds difference. What is the peak load with a 500lb chunk falling during negative rigging? I don’t know, but I like keeping as much strength as possible in all situations. Plus splices are just sexy!

 

[friedrich]

Absolutely not! I’m saying the running bowline is plenty strong if you’re staying within safe working loads. For example, say you’re using 1/2” Stable Braid. Break strength (new) of 10,400#. If a running bowline retains 70% and a splice retains 90%, you’re at 7280# and 9360# retained strength, respectively. I don’t know about you, but my personal target limit for rigging with 1/2” is 500# negative rigging and 1000# static rigging, both well within safe working limits. That’s all I was saying. Why concern yourself over a ~20% difference in retained strength when you’re safety factor should land you well within safe limits to start with? As well as the point that’s been made…you’ll be cutting that spliced end off soon enough anyway if you use it a lot.

thanks for the clarification

 

[friedrich]

I am the do everything in my company Tommy. My time is extremely valuable. What little I have. Especially since is balanced between family, kids and work. I am the mechanic, the climber, the sales, the book keeper...
Why on earth would I spend my time making a splice I will inevitably cut off and then either use a knot or again take time to splice it. I tie knots quickly and efficiently. I use crabs where I can tie a knot and leave it for a while to lower with.
The end of any rope takes a beating. You dont need a habit of nicking a line to see it. Rarely is the actual splice nicked anyway if and when that happens. But if the rope is..
I understand why some folks like splices. I understand why some folks love to splice. Honestly. My hands hurt after doing it making it not an enjoyable task.
I will continue to splice my dead eyes and loopies in Tenex. Fast, easy and once its used up, the whole thing is retired. Best use of time.
Edit :
And if I NEED a tight eye on a prussic, I gladly pay someone to do it. They are cheaper

my situation is similar, but i really enjoy splicing.


also i have plenty of rigging lines that not spliced. only my „nice“ rigging lines (that run through blocks/rings) are spliced.

greetings

 

[Marc-Antoine]

To me, the safety factor should be applied to what's left after the making of the rigging, not the brand new rope. Say your rigging line is made with a bowline, the safety factor should be counted on the 70% strength, not the 100% of the rope. Otherwise your safety factor is downgraded straight down by almost one third without any tear and wear. Sure it can hold, but you end to be overcomfident after your rope took some aging..

 

[Raj]

I'm half and half.

 

[friedrich]

its hard to come up with definite numbers, especially with used rope. in my pull testing, splice vs. knot (bowline, scaffold) the splice always won. obviously a overused splice might break lower than a bowline.

also i use hardware (steel carabiners and cmi shackle for the bigger lines) with the spliced rigging line, so no rope on rope seesawing.

 

[greengreer]

I used to splice everything in the winters when I had time. A tight eye in a climb line is great. If you're mostly srt then it's not so important. Really good if you do alot of crane work.

Rigging wise, I prefer knots but sometimes it's much faster to use a piece of hardware (especially with loop runners).

If you're worried about knots decreasing strength I think you're pushing the rigging system to hard. 5:1 for static or 10:1 for dynamic are good factors to stay within so that knot shouldn't be of question.

 

[friedrich]

If you're worried about knots decreasing strength I think you're pushing the rigging system to hard. 5:1 for static or 10:1 for dynamic are good factors to stay within so that knot shouldn't be of question.

a stronger system is… stronger. so you won‘t push limits but will stay within your systems wll.

 

[flushcut]

All this talk of splicing taking sooooo much time, it’s like ten minutes to splice Stablebraid while drinking beer. The more you splice the faster you get at it. Besides splicing is a very convenient excuse to get out of family obligations and things in general you would rather not do.
You “Hey babe I need to spend an hour or two in the shop splicing up some gear”. Her “You’re splicing again!?” You “Yeah sweetie they are a consumable and I just want to be safe as possible and bring home as much money as possible to make you happy.”
See how that works? It’s like magic.