Safe techniques for tying into the crane ball

[cory]

Was doing a huge 55t crane/bucket job taking out 5 trees yesterday, hose blew in upper boom of 75' lift at 11am, freaking elderly climber (moi) had to finish the trees by climbing ( we were shorthanded cuz my climber quit due to inadequate work hours cuz things are slow, can't blame him of course but it sucks).

I did adequately well but am not happy with part of my technique. As we know, more than once folks have tied into the ball and been lifted off the ground (in my case tying into a ring above the ball) and when they went to rapell a bit, their rope came untied (due to mental error) causing a fall. One obvious solution is to tie into the ring above the ball and then lanyard into the hook. But the problem with that imo is you can't rappel much at all with your lanyard in the hook so if you un-lanyard to rappel, the same thing could happen ( a fall due to mental error with your friction device/hitch).

So I would like a way to lanyard into the round sling which is hanging from the hook thus allowing more freedom of descent while still being tied in twice. The idea being that after I've rapelled several feet down the length of the sling, I can have full faith in my friction device etc and then un-lanyard with confidence and get to work in the canopy.

My idea is some knot or hitch that would be tied loose enough around the round sling to allow descent but if a sudden drop occurred, it would lock down onto the sling preventing a fall.

Thoughts?

 

[lumberjack]

I don’t understand mental error causing a fall from a crane tip being different than the same error in the tree?

 

[cory]

It happened to Paul cox for example.

In the tree, if you are climbing from the ground up with double lanyard technique, (your climbing line serving as one of the lanyards), you have multiple opportunities to test the connection. With the crane, you walk up to the ball, tie in and away you go. There’s no working of the hitch until you are floating above the canopy ready to rappel down into it. Lanyarding to the hook only allows a few inches of movement instead of 4-15’ of movement depending on sling length, if you were lanyarded to the sling.
Maybe something like a munter hitch idea

 

[cory]

And closely checking one’s attachment point etc before being lifted is of course a must-do, but mistakes happen.
Tying into the hook is way better than nothing but it seems not fully adequate

 

[Kaveman]

Tree climbing= non redundant, single point tie in. Lanyard for positioning and "backup".

I guess you could always run two climb lines and devices, that would solve your issue fairly well.

 

[lxskllr]

I don't know how a crane gig works, but what about two lines? Both mrs. One through a ring above the ball, and one through the hook. Loosen from the hook til you're sure your setup's good, completely free it by removing the anchor from your bridge, rappel down to the tree, lanyard in, then free the rope from above the ball by removing the bridge anchor.

 

[friedrich]

i will ride with the hooks near my feet and sometimes clip into the chains for the fuzzy feeling of safety. also i will pay out line (so i ride where i wanne be) and it‘s easy to weight your tip without full commitment.

lawrence schultz has a video about using a second srt system in the tree for cranework.
works really well for me.

 

[Dave Shepard]

What I saw was climbing line in the master link, which is technically the only ok tie-in. Then lanyard went through the round sling.

 

[cory]

What I saw was climbing line in the master link, which is technically the only ok tie-in. Then lanyard went through the round sling.

Yes that's what I tie into the master link. But if I lanyard thru the round sling, should a drop occur, the sudden stop when lanyard hits the bottom of the sling would probably kill you.

 

[Altissimus]

With the exclaimer of neva used a Crane but ...,I often use a short hank and go old school taut line hitch and a minder pulley in smaller tops in addition to my flip lines so ,

 

[pigwot]

I tend to use a motion lanyard (30 ft system with friction hitch or mechanical) as my second tie-in. I’ll keep it mostly daisy-chained unless things are looking sketchy when I will strip out extra ‘insurance’ length. Allows for extra length to play with / rappel with.

 

[cory]

Good stuff, so that allows you to rappel a fair amount while still being lanyarded into the bulletproof hook.

 

[BIGTWIG]

Part of my gear check system after I have ran through my system of everything on the ground, is that I always have the crane lift me maybe 5-10’, and I test my system (typically unicender). I bump the unicender fast to make sure it will catch rope without slipping. Then I rappel to the ground, pack rope, and it’s off to the canopy.

I like the metolius backpacks best for crane work, I run 200’ of rope. I may be lifted over 100’ by the crane, but my tie in points are rarely ever above that. I don’t use my crane rope for other jobs, if it gets picked and I don’t like the look, I replace it.
If the unicender slips much on the crane rope, I replace it.

If I’m not running a steel core, I have a 20’ Tri tech lanyard with a VT in a pinto, so that I can rappel a little if I want to run it as a short climb line. I like the wesspur crane tie system as well.

How long of a lanyard do you run @cory ?

 

[pigwot]

Good stuff, so that allows you to rappel a fair amount while still being lanyarded into the bulletproof hook.

Exactly.

 

[Burnham]

Long lanyards offer so many benefits in so many parts of tree work aloft. A few drawbacks sure, but on balance I never regretted using 16 to 20 foot rope lanyards as my sop.

 

[cory]

Part of my gear check system after I have ran through my system of everything on the ground, is that I always have the crane lift me maybe 5-10’, and I test my system (typically unicender). I bump the unicender fast to make sure it will catch rope without slipping. Then I rappel to the ground, pack rope, and it’s off to the canopy.

Yup, that right there is likely the best answer to my question. It is ultra simple, it directly addresses the exact issue at hand, and it's quick. Gracias, sir.

Just curious, how long have you been using this method? It's ultra simple but can't say I've ever heard of it or seen it done.

My lanyard is just average, never measured it, probably 12' long.

Btw I use a ZZ for friction device.

 

[cory]

Thanks all for your input

 

[BIGTWIG]

Yup, that right there is likely the best answer to my question. It is ultra simple, it directly addresses the exact issue at hand, and it's quick. Gracias, sir.

Just curious, how long have you been using this method? It's ultra simple but can't say I've ever heard of it or seen it done.

My lanyard is just average, never measured it, probably 12' long.

Btw I use a ZZ for friction device.

I’ve been doing this for 10 years.
Crane work can be stressful to meet the bid, and keep the equipment fed with wood, so I always have tried to be very thorough with my checks first thing in the morning.

I’d definitely recommend a longer lanyard, maybe try a 20-25’.

 

[Bodean]

My first crane job my rookie year..my boss flew me over power lines hanging by flip line. Haha.
Never stop learning. Might get easier as you go..

 

[SeanKroll]

I've used two big ass chain (elongated) shackles, screw pins wired shut. One on the cable, second one on the first. Rope through the second shackle.




I don't understand the concern of the climbing system malfunctioning.

 

[cory]

It's simply the concern of exactly what happened to Paul Cox. If it happened to him it could happen to me. The simple solution mentioned by BigTwig I feel fully solves the issue.

 

[SeanKroll]

Paul was known for some risky options.


There was some exchange, once.
I mentioned a 3" tail after a termination knot. Paul quoted 3x's the rope diameter for a required tail length. I stated concern with that idea. He said I wouldn't worry if I saw how short his tails were.

I always terminate with a scaffold described here Knotting Really Matters - https://tcimag.tcia.org/training/rigging/knotting-really-matters/#:~:text=Some%20knots%20also%20can%20have,might%20not%20be%20as%20desirable.

This might be called a grapevine oe "half a double-fishermans".

I only have anchor bends on my MCRS bridge because it's designed for it, having the tails exit downward. I'm very careful with them.

The anchor bend as atermination got @CurSedVoyce, IIRC.


These risks are inherent in any climbing scenario, most easily checked before riding the ball lift-off compared to mid-climbing, IMO.


Due diligence and vigilence, always!

 

[No_Bivy]

I dont think it has to be complicated. I had a load rated sling with 30k steel ring to tie rope through. Two steel lockers above the ball on the cable. Tie in DRT to that then laynard to hook for back up. Cant see benefit of getting more complicated. Bagged rope, rode up with spider legs, rapped from ball to rig. Moved to cut position and pulled rope. Or to ground if second climber was already at cut point.

if line is two parted then you must break rules and tie in direct.

long laynard seems clumsy for crane job. For sure with climbing. less is more to be quick and safe.

 

[cory]

I use an anchor bend on my termination knot on my biner and leave the tail approx 8" long.

As mentioned earlier here, climbing from the ground up offers numerous opportunities to check and weight termination knots while being double tied in and then proceeding upward. I'm simply not crazy about being lifted off the ground even with weighting and checking with feet on ground. It doesn't feel quite right to me but bigtwig's method checks all the boxes re effective fail proofing, imo.

 

[cory]

. Two steel lockers above the ball on the cable. Tie in DRT to that then laynard to hook for back up.
.

The lanyard to the hook is the issue for me. The hook is too close to the DRT tie in. You can't rappel basically any distance while still being lanyarded in. You have to remove the lanyard and then rappel which is what bit Paul.