Replaceable cutters on saw chain (Chain-Sert)

[rskybiz]

Saw this today and will try and see if more info can be obtained.
Any thoughts?

.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/J22kEXAC6uo" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[HolmenTree]

Joel, thanks for posting that. Seeing it's only in 3/4" pitch it won't be practical for a hand held chainsaw, just processors etc.
But it does give me some ideas, in my work shop I'm working on a project building a "high tooth" cutter design for my timbersport chains. Just modifying a factory sawchain for competition takes me no less then 40 hours .

 

[woodworkingboy]

Other parts of a chain wear too. Have to question whether replacing just the cutters is a good idea.

 

[flushcut]

Interesting! I saw that on FB and they said they are making it for .404 pitch as well.

 

[HolmenTree]

Other parts of a chain wear too. Have to question whether replacing just the cutters is a good idea.

Yes makes me wonder too Jay. Are these guys using OEM chassis parts from Oregon or whoever or are they making their own?
Tool and die making is big business and it took the 2 big saw chain companies years and millions of $ to develop this stuff.

Info for Al Smith:
Al, I was just on Oregon's site and I see they're putting out the .058 chisel .404 chain again.

 

[bonner1040]

What takes 40 hours

mobile...

 

[flushcut]

What takes 40 hours

mobile...

Making a race chain.

 

[HolmenTree]

Making a loop of race chain is kind of like painting, takes lots of patience and dedication. Disassembling, grinding, cutting, reassembling then filing the cutting edges with angles pertaining to the species of wood to be cut.

 

[Cut4fun]

Did you get a loop of the 404 high tooth Willard?

 

[gf beranek]

This insert is a clever idea for a saw chain, for sure, but there's one thing I wonder about it. It goes back to the day when the burl cutters around my parts used carbide chain. The carbide cutters would outlast the chain itself and it got to the point they were breaking straps and drive-links all the time. Created lots of down time. The chain itself was off the shelf with brazed on inserts. The chain wore out, not the cutters, and for the cost of carbide it turned out being much cheaper to go back to 'off the shelf' in the long run. Good idea but not practical.

Now what would the cost on something like that be? Say for a 36 inch loop?

 

[HolmenTree]

Did you get a loop of the 404 high tooth Willard?

No I haven't got a hold of Betrand yet to buy a loop of that chain Kevin. Still haven't decided whether to go to .404 yet on my bikesaw yet. I'm playing around with a few options with the 3/8. Presently in the planning stage of making a high tooth 3/8 cutter, but need a little more practice with my new to me mig welder.

This insert is a clever idea for a saw chain, for sure, but there's one thing I wonder about it. It goes back to the day when the burl cutters around my parts used carbide chain. The carbide cutters would outlast the chain itself and it got to the point they were breaking straps and drive-links all the time. Created lots of down time. The chain itself was off the shelf with brazed on inserts. The chain wore out, not the cutters, and for the cost of carbide it turned out being much cheaper to go back to 'off the shelf' in the long run. Good idea but not practical.

Now what would the cost on something like that be? Say for a 36 inch loop?

That's well said Jerry, and carbide chain wasn't designed to be run long hours a day. I believe fire depts. are the main customers for the stuff.
I would say over a $1000 for a 36" loop.

 

[gf beranek]

For that price I hope it lasts longer than regular chain. Thanks

 

[woodworkingboy]

I still have a bunch of carbide chain. With the brazed variety I have, by the time you get to the end of the life of the chain, it will usually have lost one or more cutters. A relatively slow cutting chain as well.

 

[Bermy]

The only thing we used carbide chain for was cutting stone...went well with the largest electric saw Stihl sold, down in the hole, no fumes and cut all day.
Kinda like the old chipper we'd toss lumps of stone into to make screenings for concrete...worked a treat.

 

[gf beranek]

The burl cutters used it on the more dirty root-wads. Often cutting through rocks the size of tennis balls. What misery.

 

[flushcut]

I can't imagine cutting through rocks that big.

 

[gf beranek]

Carbide will do it when you have two 090's pulling the chain. Brutal.

 

[flushcut]

Carbide or not.... what's left of the chain?

 

[gf beranek]

That's the bottom line. The chain wears out long before cutters. As Bermy pointed out, the brazed cutters tend to break off, and it's never as sharp as you can get a conventional cutter. As Willard informed, carbide chain was meant more for rescue. I recall Baileys touted it that purpose, maybe they still do. All the burl cutters I knew that tried carbide chain went back to conventional right after their first or second loop.

Both the carbide and insert chain are very specialized, and neither one is practical for what we do everyday. Still it has its place.

 

[Tucker943]

I'll be honest, I don't go through tons of chain on the saws that I personally use at work. I often give one or two strokes per tooth just to keep the razors edge. But really, unless I find metal in a tree, I don't seem to run through chain. When I was logging I went through chain. Topping trees is what did it for me. My work at the stump didn't usually cause me much trouble. Topping behind the bell saw was one dull chain after another. Bell saw would dump them over and drag them all into a fanned out hitch of trees. Then I'd trim the tree down to 8" and top it after it was dragged. Dull chains to be had there.

 

[gf beranek]

Sounds like a landing man's job here. Sawing in the dirt.

 

[woodworkingboy]

There sure are differnt grades of carbide. The brazed stuff that I purchased from Baileys, hitting large rocks or even small rocks regularly, would dull it rather quick. Longer lasting than regular chain, however. Nothing like a dull chain that is slow to cut with to begin with. In fairly clean dirt it worked ok. I'm betting the rescue chain is a harder carbide, if it cuts through steel efficiently. I would guess it might be a different tooth angle configuration as well.

 

[Rob Shaffer]

Hey guys, saw your post. I love the feedback on our product. Great to hear that people are noticing us. If you go to the web page you can see the product (www.chain-serts.com). We put a lot of research into some of the concerns you have posted and found similar results in our competitors chains, which is why we make our own chain. We designed our chain specifically to outlast the cutters, its really a two part cutting system. Our chain is a tool holder, so the cutting insert can be changed out. One thing I can tell you, Ive posted this to the same concerns on facebook, we have a guy in Punxsutawney PA that has cut over 500,000 board feet using our 3/4 chain, hes been cutting since June using the same chain, hes only replaced a couple cutters so far (approx. $12 in cutters). Holeman Tree, we do have 404 coming next year and 3/8 after that. If any of you would like to see a sample segment, send me your address and I'll ship a free one to you. And please, keep the questions coming, and I'll answer them the best I can. Rob

 

[CurSedVoyce]

Cool.... Nice to have you here and your input Rob!

 

[Rob Shaffer]

Thanks CurSedVoyce, Great bunch of people here, Happy to be part of it!