Pulling and falling dead trees.

woodworkingboy

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We have an overwhelming Pine beetle blight going on, whole large areas are being devastated as time moves the situation along. Our own area is being hit hard now, and it is easy to see from which direction the beetles have come. The forests are thick with Pines. Often in the vicinity of vacation homes, falling more and more dead trees that need to be pulled toward the lay, and what would be a resilient and foldable hinge in a healthy tree, is very brittle and snaps much earlier on when pulling. Most locations we don't have the luxury of using a vehicle for a fast pull, have to go with a Tirfor endless line device. A great puller, but it's a very slow increment uptake of the cable. I'm wondering if there are any ideas about how to get a tree of this nature to advance more towards the lay without breaking early. Some cutting method? Some tips? Thanks for any thoughts! More often than not, when we get to these trees, they aren't rotten yet, but very dried out.
 
Tie a log midline on the pull line. It will continue to pull toward the lay, until the log hits the ground.

How far away from a vehicle can it be? Multiple ropes connected with redirect blocks? How big of trees?

Can you rent a machine of any sort?

What is your local population like, out of curiousity?
 
I've watched a third generation logger use what he called a box cut hinge to keep the trunk attached to the stump for as long as possible. It worked well and held until the trunk hit the ground on a fairly steep downhill slope. This pulling over an extremely fat but hollow triple leader Coulter pine towering over a three story mansion on the Lake Arrowhead shoreline.

Instead of a triangular face cut, an 8 inch tall rectangular face cut's made, with the finishing cut perfectly aligned to the top of the 8 inch tall rectangle face. The idea's to give the bending face more vertical volume to hold to the stump with.

It does work well on conifers, but eucs n hardwoods? Forgettaboutit!

Jomo
 
I would argue that speed is not needed.. Just good communication and proper cutting. A tree jack is helpful. A German cut or block cut can also help for more fibre and hinge during the pull. Comm system works wonders as the cutter and puller communicate well. Use a rope for pulling instead of cable for more stored energy in the line. This will continue the pull even after the tree is committed.
Jay, you will probably notice that the beetles move mostly with the wind. Pay attention to prevailing winds and you can follow the infestation.
 
Get a very stretchy rope, like a thin rock climbing rope. It will be a bungee to help pull.

If there is no sidelean, the pull can be slow. If not, you need speed.

Agree with the block face for better hinge.
 
Not sure why you need speed. If the tree won't stay on the stump and risk of damage is high, climb it. That's what we do, if we can't fall it whole, climb it. Bid according to what the job entails. Fwiw, trees that may break off with a side lean often stay on the stump when pulled directly away from the lean.
 
Not sure why you need speed. If the tree won't stay on the stump and risk of damage is high, climb it. That's what we do, if we can't fall it whole, climb it. Bid according to what the job entails. Fwiw, trees that may break off with a side lean often stay on the stump when pulled directly away from the lean.

Very much so like this often. Climb it, piece it an get on with your day. :thumbup:
 
+2 on the speed.. power is much more important than speed IMO... Enough power and you can make the cut and walk away then call for the pull... I usually pull with the skid steer so plenty of both... you can duoble the speed by adding a block to the pulling side, with one of the legs tied off near the base of the tree. best to experiment when in non critical situations... see what you can getr away with... try 4"+ hinge thickness... let us know how it works
 
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  • #17
Yeah, a block face to try and get more foldability (new word?). Climbing is certainly often one option that we chose, but there are also those ones that seem sketchy to climb, and many trees have competed for light and have grown tall and skinny. I'm not sure if the beetle infestation here is the same as Stephen's area is experiencing, apparently different beetles devastate trees in different ways. I think what we have here is akin to the Southern pine beetle. the most destructive kind. They carry a fungi that gets into the sapwood and disrupts the flow of water, the tree dries out almost before your very eyes. The tree isn't simply dead, they are often very dried out brittle. I can't quite figure out how they manage to dry so quickly. Normally it would take some years for logs that size to lose their water starting from a healthy point, but it seems to happen much more quickly when water isn't moving up to the crown. I guess that as the water intake decreases, the needles are quickly losing what remains.

We usually pull with a combination of cable through the puller, attached to rope to the tree. Trees sizes run the gamut, on up to thirty inch diameters or so. Average is about 20 inches.

I know from steam bending relatively thick wood for furniture, that existing moisture content before you put it in a steam box, has a direct impact on how successful you can bend the wood without it fracturing. With thick wood, when steaming you can't introduce moisture beyond a couple millimetres below the surface, steaming only heats up the water already in the wood, which allows it to bend. Too dry and it's a no go, and it is also takes a lot more effort trying pull it around a form. It's the same with the infested Pines here, they won't bend towards the lay nearly as easily as ones with water still in them, you be cranking and they don't want to move much, and I would estimate that the tendency to fracture at the hinge is at least three or four times earlier in their movement toward the lay. It does seem like speed with adequate power, would be an asset in getting them over to where you would want, even if they are breaking during the process. Perhaps hanging a log would help, but it would have to be a very heavy one. The Tirfor can generate a lot of power, but each crank is only an inch or two of cable travel. With a pretty good back leaner in a very dried out condition, making the cut as Murph suggests, then pulling with a Tirfor, you could well be getting a break at the hinge too early. The trees have become very static. The cut a little pull a little more has been our preferred method, as Dave mentions. i'm definitely going to try the block out face. I've used it before, but hadn't thought about it for the dead Pines. Thanks for all the thoughts.

Sean, a bunch of small towns have incorporated over the years, to where the whole area combined has a population of about 100,000. From a northern point however, the terrain is mountains and woods extending for many miles east and west and north to the sea. Vacation homes and a lot of nothingness along the way.
 
Grcs pulls faster than a tirfor. Couple blocks for re direct could make setting up minimal
 
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  • #19
Never used one Willie, but have been hankering after seeing how you guys put them to use.
 
2 speed winch. Direct pull is pretty fast but not like a truck. We've pulled some big ones with a 3 part line. Slows it down but pulls harder. How tall are the trees?
 
+2 on the speed.. power is much more important than speed IMO... Enough power and you can make the cut and walk away then call for the pull... I usually pull with the skid steer so plenty of both... you can duoble the speed by adding a block to the pulling side, with one of the legs tied off near the base of the tree. best to experiment when in non critical situations... see what you can getr away with... try 4"+ hinge thickness... let us know how it works

I was trying to work out this Mechanical Disadvantage out in my head, but was having a brain fart.

Seems this should increase the load required to pull, but move more rope. Still in my head, it is blurry.
 
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  • #22
Willie, the height I'd say would average 40 to 60 feet. Some larger tree stands seem to be maxing out at around 80 feet. Fifty to eighty years old is pretty common, but they cut down a lot of the older trees to get the sap to make fuel for the war effort.
Processed Pine sap can fly airplanes.
 
Another perplexing problem specific to our industry, line take up speed.

Ideally you'd prefer a rapid enough take up of slack to slap the ground with the tree.

Closest I've gotten to that ideal's a big tracked skidsteer pulling 1:1.

Most of my pulling's been done with my tooltruck's 12 volt 12K pull Warner winch, very slow, but lots of grunt.

I've had it floating in the back of my mind now for decades, to springload the entire winch spool to suck up line in the blink of an eye, with your choice of three settings, say 50' 100' or a maximum of 150?

Should be able to crank it up to a maximum springload like an old model T truck!

Is it normal to carry around fifty inventions in the back of your mind?

Mine must've come from the Abbie Normal jar in the lab!

Jomo
 
If you have plenty of pull power, you can increase line speed by attaching it lower. This, however will increase the force on the hinge so you have to be carefull & compensate with your cutting if required.
 
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