pulley question?

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bstewert

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Which pulley do you think would provide less friction, one with a 2" sheave on a bushing (around 70% efficiency), or one with a 1 1/2" sheave with ball bearings (around 90%)? I'm thinking the bigger sheave is better. Just curious.

The application is an elevator (counterbalance) system to haul non-climbers up a tree. Currently I'm using a 2" Petzl Rescue pulley, but may jump to a 3" to reduce friction.
 
Generally speaking in the course of normal rigging weather tree related or not a larger pulley is more efficient .
 
I doubt in the real world you'd perceive any difference between the two. What Al says is true I guess, but since the larger of the two you are considering has a lower efficiency rating of loss to friction, I bet it's a wash.
 
In tree work or light rigging it probabley would not .Heavy duty steel cable it makes a big difference in fiber bend fatigue and number of other factors .
 
Not entirely, when rope bends, the stands move in relation to one another, creating friction. The tighter the bend, the more friction. Tighter laid rope is more sensitive as well.

Super braid on a micro pulley is one example of a bad combo.
 
Depends on how you look at it Burnam .On those itty bitty braided ropes you guys use it's probabley not a issue .On a 3/4" steel cable it could add up to quite a bit of load .

Let me give you an example with a three strand .Brick layers have for years hoisted bricks morter etc up scaffolds using what they call a "well wheel " This is a large pulley about 16 to 20 inch in diameter .Because the load is hoisted from the ground up the large wheel acts kind of like a mechanical advantage because of the large radius .In addition it lessens the load because it dosn't bend the rope over like it would on a smaller pulley .It's just physics .

Again though going to 3 inch from two on braided rope most likely wouldn't be worth the trouble .
 
Not entirely, when rope bends, the stands move in relation to one another, creating friction. The tighter the bend, the more friction. Tighter laid rope is more sensitive as well.

Super braid on a micro pulley is one example of a bad combo.

Fair enough, but that is a different factor than fiber bend fatigue, which was the point of my comment re Al's post.
 
Then again, the original post was about hoisting a person up into a tree. We're talking what, 300# max? If you can manually hoist him up on a 3" pulley, I don't think dropping to a 2" will be noticeable. And if you're using some sort of winching device, it won't matter anyway.

FWIW, Wesspur has two 3" pulleys and two 4" pulleys available on the 5/8" pulley page..........www.wesspur.com/Pulleys/five-eigths-pulleys.html.
 
An elevator, Scott. One person coming out of the tree lifts another person into the tree. Worse case they have to "help" a little, no big deal.
 
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I think every little bit helps, since friction seems to sneak in through various unexpected places. For example, if two people are hanging from a single pulley the two legs of the rope are so close together they start wanting to twist, adding friction. Often you don't have a "clean" shot, and the rope ends up rubbing over a branch or two. Setting up two pulleys at the top would separate the rope, but that right there adds more friction.

With the weight differential between the two people and unwanted friction, it can be a workout for the person "helping." I've used these two pulleys so far. The Petzl was better, and that's only 1/2" bigger than the Pinto.

One thing that helped a lot was trying to even out the weight difference. Since I didn't happen to have a bunch of dumbells around, I ended up using sand in a bag hooked to the lighter person. It took a couple times to figure out "total weight with gear" vs just body weight.

IMG_0754.jpg
 
On same axle types, would be close. If bushing setup has aluminum or other non-steel axle, then not so much. In single pulley redirect, not much to sweat here. But, small differences would add up / multiply out the inefficiencies in multiple pulley system.

The larger/ 2" support, wouldn't work the rope as much due to bend radius forcing outer fibers to carry more force as inner are compressed(rope only works tensioned direction, not compressed).

Also, i think we are talking about sintered (pressed metal powder heated to just below melting so joins porously, then heavy oil drawn in to pore passes, oil only comes out when spinning, then drawn back in when not spinning ) bushings; but if not sintered, then less efficient bushing being considered usually.

Friction of axle bearings/bushing is base friction, then sheave radius ratio to axle gives leverage over these frictions. But actually, larger rope that carrys force mostly on outside fibers, would then give some more efficiency, as outer rope arc is the actual leverage point, rather than sheave size itself. Also, theoretically larger pulley takes less revs, so lasts longer. Bushings spread loading out farther, can take more impacts.

There are definitely 3" + 4" pulleys, many w/bearings. Some even larger with zerks.

If person coming out of tree acts as ballast to person floating up, would consider Prussic minding setup or pulley. Also, if 1 person on setup works on other leg, gets 2xEffort, like climber lifting self.
 
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