Oregon chain compared to others

[Blinky]

I was using Oregon on my ground saws and Stihl on climbing saws. I never noticed the Oregon stretching except when I first run it but it definitely doesn't hold an edge as well as Stihl.
I bought a new bar that came with some Windsor chain a few months ago. Is Windsor just re-badged chain from another manufacturer?
It cuts great, holds an edge better than Oregon but it's pretty hard, takes longer to file. ...and Oregon files are crap.

This is a great thread.

 

[Cut4fun]

Are the LG cutters on the 76 chain shorter height then the LG cutters on the 72?

I do know the 76 drivers are what the builders are after for chassis though.

I got enough of the oregon 76 drivers for someone to make 2 72dl and 2 60dl thinned chains. The fastest chains I have seen had 76 drivers, if you compare them to the oregon 72 drivers I think you would see the diifference.

Whether the cutters are the same people are looking for I dont have a clue yet.

Got the info from a chain builder . ( I've built some chain with 76 LG. The 76 cutter is low profile height so you have to change to a 72 3/8 cutters. There is less work to be done on the chassis . )

 

[HolmenTree]

Willard, the Husqv chain I have does have a profile on the raker, just a slightly narrower one than is usual. I ground off the ramps to leave that and make it like the other chains I use with no safety feature. It performs in the same fashion.

Made it back home!
Jay could you please post a photo of your chain so I can see exactly what you got.

Willard.

 

[HolmenTree]

Willard or other chain builder, you guys might know the answer to the cutter question. I know you used to use 76 chain so figuring you may know about the cutters.

I dont ( I'm not sure) think the older LG cutters on these are the same as the older LG cutters the chain builders are wanting. Maybe they are shorter height. Are the LG cutters on the 76 chain shorter height then the LG cutters on the 72?

I do know the 76 drivers are what the builders are after for chassis though.

I got enough of the oregon 76 drivers for someone to make 2 72dl and 2 60dl thinned chains. The fastest chains I have seen had 76 drivers, if you compare them to the oregon 72 drivers I think you would see the diifference.
Whether the cutters are the same people are looking for I dont have a clue yet.

Yes Kevin the Oregon 76 LG was used for timbersport competitions since it first came out in the early 1980s. I used the 77LG [.058] I put 72-73 LP cutters on it sharpened with a chisel bit file. Lite weight chassis with full sized cutters on it. Stihl made a similar chain the 33TS [Topic Super].

Willard.

 

[woodworkingboy]

Sure Willard..thanks. Off to the big town for a change, will get some pics up in a day or two. Like to get the mystery solved, since I have a large quantity of those chains.

 

[HolmenTree]

This is a statement that is pretty strong and wrong. I think you refer to the Super 70 and Super 20 chain that is still going today.
There were others before that had same types like Sandvik, Mall/Remington to name a few....
The X series have the (blue) anti rust on it now that Stihl had for years and some had in 50's!

The raker as it is today has not changed much. Sandvik and McCulloch had the long safety raker in late 50's early 60's.
3 raker chain....
Partner chains sold in 60's and 70´s had a raker bigger than the one used on LG today.

I'm not wrong. Oregon first introduced chain guard links in 1958. Other chain companies developed oversized depth gauges for "deep setting" in softwood.
In 1964 Oregon intro'ed S-70 and "Speed Guard" chains. In 1972 Oregon developed the first kick back testing machines for safety research.That year they intro'ed the Super 70 series 3/8" anti-kick back chain.
In 1975 they intro'ed the 3/8" LoPro 91 series chain. In 1977 the " Banana nose bar" [Guard Tip] was intro'ed by Oregon with the medium contour nose joint, then to the slimline contour nose joint.
In 1982 the 72-75 LG , 76-77 LG and 33 LG [.325]were intro'ed.
While logging I field tested Oregon, Windsor and Stihl chain, sprockets, bars and powerheads in the 1970s, 80s and 90s. Here is a few photos one from the early 1980s when I competed in a chainsaw speed cutting contest with my Jonsered 630 worksaw. And if you look real close you will see the very first in the world prototype Oregon PowerMatch bar with a banana nose guard tip I was testing at work at the time. Also on that saw I had the very 1st radial port rim sprocket. Today Stihl radial port rims are rebadged Oregons made by Oregon.
The banana nose was never manufactured in the PowerMatch setup. But was replaced by the "DoubleGuard" as the next photo shows. Available in .325" and regular 3/8". Now today the "DoubleGuard" is a laminated consumer POS.
Oregon used "blueing" on their cutters long ago, discontinued it , then re-introduced it on the 70 series LP and LG in 1987.
Willard.

 

[Cut4fun]

Yes Kevin the Oregon 76 LG was used for timbersport competions since it first came out in the early 1980s. I used the 77LG [.058] I put 72-73 LP cutters on it sharpened with a chisel bit file. Lite weight chassis with full sized cutters on it.

Willard.

Cool I found a bunch of presets the chain builders are going nuts over too. Only the select will get them .

 

[HolmenTree]

Cool I found a bunch of presets the chain builders are going nuts over too. Only the select will get them .

The last racechain I built was over 20 yrs ago. Since that long holiday I was sure every one would know about it now. Funny how competitors keep secrets. I brought this 76LG discussion up over at Racesaws a while back and I could sense a pin dropping.
If you have a hard time finding it the 77LG[.058] will do, its still .058 at the rivet hubs just like the .050 76. Look for some .050 Stihl 33Topic Super and put 33RS cutters on. Same chain as the Oregon just has .063 at the hubs.
When I worked for Stihl in '89 I had 50 loops tested of 33TS with 33RS cutters installed at the Swiss factory. These chains went to loggers in northern Alberta Canada. I never stayed around long enough to get the full results.

Willard.

 

[woodworkingboy]

Willard, this is a photo of the 'Husq' chain in question that we were discussing, one before the ramps have been ground down. As I mentioned, grinding the ramps seems to work fine, but you will notice that the rakers are a bit narrower than on chain with no ramps, obviously designed to work with the ramps, but Little in the way of noticeable kick back tendencies beyond standard chain with no safety ramps or whatever. It also has 'LV' stamped on it. What do you make of it?

 

[Al Smith]

In 1977 the " Banana nose bar" [Guard Tip] was intro'ed by Oregon with the medium contour nose joint, . ,
Willard.

I've got a couple of those in Mac 10 series mount size .They are a pain in the behind as they are not reversable .

 

[HolmenTree]

I've got a couple of those in Mac 10 series mount size .They are a pain in the behind as they are not reversable .

They were a pain Al. Not only that but they had 3 rivets holding them on. Stihl complained at one time that they were a kickback safety hazard if the bar was mounted upside down on the saw. But later on they had to apologize and state it wasn't a hazard in ChainSaw Age magazine after some pressure from Oregon and some testing.
The newer Double Guard that replaced it was a far better bar nose.
Willard.

 

[HolmenTree]

Willard, this is a photo of the 'Husq' chain in question that we were discussing, one before the ramps have been ground down. As I mentioned, grinding the ramps seems to work fine, but you will notice that the rakers are a bit narrower than on chain with no ramps, obviously designed to work with the ramps, but Little in the way of noticeable kick back tendencies beyond standard chain with no safety ramps or whatever. It also has 'LV' stamped on it. What do you make of it?

You have a Oregon 70 series LPX chain there Jay. The other 70 series chain the LGX chain does not have that ramp on top of the drivelink like the LPX, but it does have a small ramp on it's raker which is almost as effective for reducing kickback. But the LGX advantage is its a lighter and faster chain because of its increased chip clearance and chip flow. As long as you don't file the rakers way below the factory specs and don't put too much hook in the cutters side plate you should be safe to go with your modded no ramp chain. I just fear for the filer who has little or no experience.
The 'L V' stamped on the chain is the initials of the inspector who was on shift of the production run when this chain was made.
The only company I know of who makes a 3/8" chain in this series with no safety ramps is Stihl. For example in .050 its called 33RSC KLASSIC. Check it out on their website.

Willard.

 

[woodworkingboy]

Thanks Willard, and I note your word of caution.

With the ramps ground down the LPX really pulls the chips, I assume due to the better clearance. I've read the claim that the LPX is a better chain for boring, compared to the LGX. I don't know the reasoning or if it's a valid claim.

 

[HolmenTree]

What differentiates the varying series?

i believe I just explained that in my last post.

Willard

 

[woodworkingboy]

OK, I was deleting my question as you were posting.

 

[HolmenTree]

Thanks Willard, and I note your word of caution.

With the ramps ground down the LPX really pulls the chips, I assume due to the better clearance. I've read the claim that the LPX is a better chain for boring, compared to the LGX. I don't know the reasoning or if it's a valid claim.

Jay with the LPX's ramps gone yes there is more chip clearance, but what "pulls the chips"is the flat front depth gauge [commonly called raker]. In proper terms the top plate of the cutter is the raker. In a race chain mod I file a concave [hook] in the front of the depth gauge to help in "pulling" the chips out of the kerf a little better.
In bore cutting LPX versus LGX , when the 2 chains are filed down to about 1/2 size the LGX's ramped depth gauges are now flatter on top [bigger area then the thinner LPX] and the ramp can get in the way while the cutter attacks the wood while boring. If that leading edge on the ramp is rounded off with a flat file, then cutting efficency goes up again.
In the 1/2 filed back LPX chain the center ramp on the drive link can also get in the way but the flat fronted depth gauges compensate by pulling the chips out of the blind bore cut along the sides of the kerf a little more effectivly then the rounded LGX.. So for that reason the LPX "chip scooping" capability may make it a little more efficent in bore cutting. But the best bore cutting chain would be no ramps at all which is only available from the factory Stihl 33 RSC Klassic chain.
In regular crosscutting the LGX is faster with its lighter weight and better chip clearance then the LPX.

Willard.

 

[woodworkingboy]

Good explanation, Willard. If I understand, and to extrapolate a bit, you are saying that the recommended method to round the leading edge of the rakers after lowering them, as recommended, would be an aid in kick back protection, and also a hindrance in chip clearance?

 

[HolmenTree]

Good explanation, Willard. If I understand, and to extrapolate a bit, you are saying that the recommended method to round the leading edge of the rakers after lowering them, as recommended, would be an aid in kick back protection, and also a hindrance in chip clearance?

Yes rounding off the leading edge of a filed down depth gauge [raker] does in a sense help reduce kickback a little. But more for the advantage in smoother cutting action. It doesn't hinder chip clearance but in the case of boring into a tree it aids in the attack angle of the cutter into the wood at the end of the guide bar.
Both LPX and LGX chains bore very efficiently when the cutters are new, but when they are filed past 1/2 then boring is not so efficient, in this situation a larger bar nose radius would help.
Here is a ad for the Oregon LG [LGX] when it first came out in 1982.

Willard.

 

[woodworkingboy]

Noticing that the 72LG is almost thirty years old since being introduced, does much r and d go into coming up with new chains now? I might be mistaken, but aside from minor changes, there doesn't seem to be much advancement in chain design to give faster cutting.

A titanium chassis chain would be interesting. They do have bike chains in that material, albeit pricey.

 

[Cut4fun]

Does this Mac branded chain look like LP with the older 72LG cutters sought after before the last run of 72LG with the - on cutter at bottom?

 

[Al Smith]

I think I might have one loop of Mac branded round chisel .I'll compare it if I can find it .Lots of 72 Oregon though .

Now that titanium, don't know about that .The stuff makes a good jet turbine blade not so sure of a chainsaw chain though .

 

[HolmenTree]

Noticing that the 72LG is almost thirty years old since being introduced, does much r and d go into coming up with new chains now? I might be mistaken, but aside from minor changes, there doesn't seem to be much advancement in chain design to give faster cutting.

A titanium chassis chain would be interesting. They do have bike chains in that material, albeit pricey.

That 30 yr old round ground 3/8 LG chain is as fast cutting as they come, even today. Only other advancement was about 6-8 yrs ago Oregon changed the angle of the plane of the cutters toe and heel , which made the "anti-vibe". Shortly after Stihl copied and called theirs "Comfort" as a C.
Titanium is very expensive can't see it happening for a work chain.

Willard.

 

[HolmenTree]

Does this Mac branded chain look like LP with the older 72LG cutters sought after before the last run of 72LG with the - on cutter at bottom?

View attachment 28782

I know for a fact MCulloch made their own chain up until the mid 1960's but I don't believe they made a 3/8" chisel chain. Oregon and Carlton introduced 3/8" chisel in 1969.That photo looks like Oregon rebadged S70 LP from the early 1970s.

Willard.

 

[sawinredneck]

Titanium would work for the straps and guides, and wouldn't be that terribly much more cost wise, it could be stamped easily, like the links are made now.
You don't want it for the cutter though, it's to soft and wouldn't hold an edge well at all. Then it's to hard and would eat files left and right!
Isn't that an oxymoron! Titanium is some odd stuff!

 

[CurSedVoyce]

I would think it too brittle for chain period.. Dunno...