pete mctree
Treehouser
Not massively experienced, but very talented & productive young climber. I should call him, we have not spoken for a few years.
one handed saw use
- Thread starter RegC
- Start date
- Replies 322
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CurSedVoyce
California Hillbilly
As stated before, I tell any trainee that the handsaw is as dangerous as a chainsaw. You can seriously fug yourself up with it. Come to think of it, almost all my hand injuries are from one. And stubs, and crushing in that order. Then maybe a rope burn...
Oh look a chart with numbers but no cause or report behind the injury to make an opinion from. Must be one handing.. Tada, Junk Science.
I am with Pete and I know many others here. Work positioning is key with every cut. You get sloppy, complacent, fatigued, tired, hungry, angry... you are setting yourself up for mayhem.
Oh look a chart with numbers but no cause or report behind the injury to make an opinion from. Must be one handing.. Tada, Junk Science.
I am with Pete and I know many others here. Work positioning is key with every cut. You get sloppy, complacent, fatigued, tired, hungry, angry... you are setting yourself up for mayhem.
Mick!
TreeHouser
Friday afternoon, last tree of the week, wet and tired, lowering an oak limb, it swung towards me, I stuck my hand out, totally unnecessarily as another branch was protecting me. Minor crush on my thumb joint, hurt like hell but now (Sunday night) it's clear that there is no serious damage.
Re the debate, one handing ok. Cutting and holding bad, as my left arm will testify.
Re the debate, one handing ok. Cutting and holding bad, as my left arm will testify.
Altissimus
TreeHouser
Agreed on the holding part , learned not to do it w a close call. I just throw a couple of Slings on.
CurSedVoyce
California Hillbilly
Usually, if I don't use a sling and do hold the limb, I finish the cut with the hand saw. Gently.
Still hard on your muscles and tendons though.
biggun
Monkey for Hire
Idepending on the tree I one hand a fair bit. It tends to be an on the spot decision based on what I need the wood to do.
A few years ago I had pretty bad tennis elbow. Probably from one handing the 200 all the time. I made an effort to two hand the saw wereever possible. Tennis elbow cleared up.
I took two things from that.
1 one handing a saw puts more strain on ligaments, tendons and muscles.
2 I bought a 150, had it timed and modded. Makes one handing much easier.
A few years ago I had pretty bad tennis elbow. Probably from one handing the 200 all the time. I made an effort to two hand the saw wereever possible. Tennis elbow cleared up.
I took two things from that.
1 one handing a saw puts more strain on ligaments, tendons and muscles.
2 I bought a 150, had it timed and modded. Makes one handing much easier.
SeanKroll
Treehouser
I think not cutting oneself is half of it.
Death by a thousand cuts wears out joints and muscles.
I think that ways to increase two-handed saw use on conifers include speed lining, bouquet rigging, and starting cuts with a top cut with a handsaw, allowing it to peel and hang, or guiding it into an appropriate drop zone without holding. Cut and hold happens, but it's hard on the body. Some species peel and hang better than others... If it will safely peel down and hang, its less shock load to the body, to finish the cut with the limb pinned to the tree.
Flush a half dozen hand- cut stubs at a time with the chainsaw. If you can't let the stub fall, stub off at 6", so you cut the stub and let it rest on the front of the saw (horizontal), bar pointed up, stub held against bar with left pinkie.
Or follow through on the cut, getting the stub to hit the top of the moving chain, shooting it into the clear.
Much easier to legislate how many hands are on the saw versus how good of work-positioning the climber has.
Death by a thousand cuts wears out joints and muscles.
I think that ways to increase two-handed saw use on conifers include speed lining, bouquet rigging, and starting cuts with a top cut with a handsaw, allowing it to peel and hang, or guiding it into an appropriate drop zone without holding. Cut and hold happens, but it's hard on the body. Some species peel and hang better than others... If it will safely peel down and hang, its less shock load to the body, to finish the cut with the limb pinned to the tree.
Flush a half dozen hand- cut stubs at a time with the chainsaw. If you can't let the stub fall, stub off at 6", so you cut the stub and let it rest on the front of the saw (horizontal), bar pointed up, stub held against bar with left pinkie.
Or follow through on the cut, getting the stub to hit the top of the moving chain, shooting it into the clear.
Much easier to legislate how many hands are on the saw versus how good of work-positioning the climber has.
Reg, do you remember in the NPTC stuff that top handled saws could be used with one hand as long as there was nothing in the kickback zone...rope, arms etc.
I think the standard was to use them with two hands at all times...unless by doing so it was then unsafe.
On a standard setting event I went to the guys did an actual climb and cut and demonstrated the situations where one handing for the purposes of the assessment was ok. It seemed a pretty sensible approach to me.
We all know after the fact of training (and assessment for some) we do things that are not strictly 'by the book', but we do so from a position of knowledge, we know what to anticipate for that could go wrong so hopefully when we step outside the box we do it with our eyes wide open!
Personally I find it a bit hard to one hand a 200 and I would not be able to control it if it kicked, so I do it when the cutting is level or below me so gravity is my helper. The 150 is a different think, I have to be sensible about one handing it because the ease with which I can do it has the potential to lead to complacency and maybe a major OOPSIE.
I think the standard was to use them with two hands at all times...unless by doing so it was then unsafe.
On a standard setting event I went to the guys did an actual climb and cut and demonstrated the situations where one handing for the purposes of the assessment was ok. It seemed a pretty sensible approach to me.
We all know after the fact of training (and assessment for some) we do things that are not strictly 'by the book', but we do so from a position of knowledge, we know what to anticipate for that could go wrong so hopefully when we step outside the box we do it with our eyes wide open!
Personally I find it a bit hard to one hand a 200 and I would not be able to control it if it kicked, so I do it when the cutting is level or below me so gravity is my helper. The 150 is a different think, I have to be sensible about one handing it because the ease with which I can do it has the potential to lead to complacency and maybe a major OOPSIE.
RegC
TreeHouser
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #60
I got the nptc ticket in 93 I believe, when it first came out. Then it expired and or changed many years later and I had get the updated version. I don't actually remember what was involved so much, but it was pretty basic I think.
I honestly avoid one handling, unless I think I'll gain an advantage. This might be to give me better control, enginomics or where I think it's safer to put the maximum amount of space between my self and the work. And in doing so I up my concentration and focus, because I know what's at stake. It's never out of laziness or habit, as was the damming judgement in those articles. There's lots of ways to get ones point of view across to influence people, but Marks all knowing delivery was not a good one from where I'm standing.
I honestly avoid one handling, unless I think I'll gain an advantage. This might be to give me better control, enginomics or where I think it's safer to put the maximum amount of space between my self and the work. And in doing so I up my concentration and focus, because I know what's at stake. It's never out of laziness or habit, as was the damming judgement in those articles. There's lots of ways to get ones point of view across to influence people, but Marks all knowing delivery was not a good one from where I'm standing.
woodworkingboy
TreeHouser
Table saw use is one handed basically, sometimes a second hand to help support something or to pull the wood away after the cut. Using a second hand is often the cause of an injury, placed at the wrong spot. A T saw can have a form of kickback as well if the wood binds the blade. That may be human error or tension in what is being cut. Obviously a table saw has some different dynamics going on compared to a chainsaw, but both share the potential for very serious injury. Skilled table saw workers can get very fine with the tool and some advanced tasks can call for that way of working, fingers perhaps a half inch away from the whirling blade. Knowing the tool and knowing not what to do, encompassed by necessary concentration is the key to not hurting yourself. Is it risky yes, is what some people do decidedly disapproved of by the people writing the manuals, yes and it may even horrify them 
, but experience and self confidence is the key. I think both cutting tools share the same basic mental approach.
I've seen a number of results of injuries from table saw use, and the folks that have unfortunately suffered those, will tell you that their error in judgment and not paying proper attention are the reasons for the bad results. On my table saw switch I have a sticker that shows a hand spurting blood from missing fingers, just a reminder about playing it as safe as you can given what you want to do and the danger that awaits. I feel much on agreement with Reg and other folks here on how they justify one handed saw use, skill and avoidance of carelessness are not the traits of a dummy. Taking acceptable risks are a part of the job, it's just that with the experience element, what may be acceptable for one, may be different for another.
Teaching one handed saw use to a beginner may not be wise, but knowing the cautionaries, if someone gravitates to using that method themselves through experience, it seems like the proper order of things.
, but experience and self confidence is the key. I think both cutting tools share the same basic mental approach.I've seen a number of results of injuries from table saw use, and the folks that have unfortunately suffered those, will tell you that their error in judgment and not paying proper attention are the reasons for the bad results. On my table saw switch I have a sticker that shows a hand spurting blood from missing fingers, just a reminder about playing it as safe as you can given what you want to do and the danger that awaits. I feel much on agreement with Reg and other folks here on how they justify one handed saw use, skill and avoidance of carelessness are not the traits of a dummy. Taking acceptable risks are a part of the job, it's just that with the experience element, what may be acceptable for one, may be different for another.
Teaching one handed saw use to a beginner may not be wise, but knowing the cautionaries, if someone gravitates to using that method themselves through experience, it seems like the proper order of things.
Great statement, this is how I look at it as well.
treebilly
Student of the Jedi. OH-7106A
+2
Cobleskill
Treehouser
Table saws scare the hell out of me.
Altissimus
TreeHouser
Yes , I hated ripping panels
High Scale
Trust fund lobbyist.
Obviously there isn't any bad blood/history between Reg and his camp and Mark and his?��
rbtree
Climbing Up
- Joined
- Jun 22, 2005
- Messages
- 1,924
As I already know your feelings on one handing (and you know mine), I read replies here first....Saw Mark being discussed--and dissed----was thinking Chisholm. Made no sense. Bridge? Yup, he I can .see--don't think much of his attitude.
mistahbenn
Treehouser
This just came up on Facebook. Damn. RIP...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...land-bled-death-tree-chainsaw-cut-throat.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...land-bled-death-tree-chainsaw-cut-throat.html
L
Levi
Guest
Man, that is terribly sad. RIP
treebilly
Student of the Jedi. OH-7106A
Sad to read. RIP
Grendel
TreeHouser
Gnarly!
woodworkingboy
TreeHouser
Terrible loss.
gf beranek
Old Schooler
Well, that just adds more fodder into the debate. Always sad.
mistahbenn
Treehouser
it was suggested that that was what he was doing.... Third hand info though.
