Notching a near-horizontal limb to swing it away from obstructions

[flashover604]

Hi all.

I've got a (hopefully) quick question for you all. If you've got a low limb that is above something you'd rather not hit (roof, fence, decorative tree, etc.), how do you handle it? Can you notch it on one side vertically and back cut the other and get it to swing some assuming you've got a rope tied out towards the tip? I don't have a need for a way to do it really as I don't take jobs that I think I might damage something (above my pay-grade as it were) but I've been wondering how you could get the limb to swing away before it drops.

I know this is probably common knowledge to most of you, but I haven't seen it done. Would you back cut at an angle to leave more wood at the top of the hinge so it wouldn't just break the hinge from top to bottom?

Thanks in advance. I'm looking forward to the replies.

 

[ruel]

Generally you can get a horizontal branch to swing some, b pretty dependent on species.

Also, if you are new to this, buy the book "The Fundamentals Of General Tree Work"! Learn up

 

[Fiddler]

...pretty dependent on species.

this

 

[Merle Nelson]

And weight/leverage. It works well once you're back in the right parameters of weight and torque vs species.

 

[flashover604]

I figured species would play a huge role in it. The ones I've noticed around here lately are Maple for the most part. Basically, I spot a tree while I'm driving and try to figure out how I'd cut a limb to clear whatever obstacle I see it above. Or, I try to figure out where the weight is in an odd shaped tree. I guess I always find myself wondering how to deal with a certain set of problems whether I actually have to deal with them or not. Apparently I get bored too easy...

I DID try to find a copy of Fundamentals but had a hard time actually finding it in print.

 

[Altissimus]

Swinging a limb though effective is gambling to a degree , for sure method is to piece it out into smalls.

 

[flashover604]

Swinging a limb though effective is gambling to a degree , for sure method is to piece it out into smalls.

I figured it would be. No matter where your hinge ASKS the limb to go, gravity is TELLING it where it will go. I didn't know if there was way to coax it into doing something it didn't want to do as a whole instead of taking small bites.

Once again, I was just asking to satisfy cutiousity more than anything. I don't plan on doing any work where I can actually damage anything. Next time I have an opportunity out in the open I may experiment on some small limbs just to see what they do.

 

[Mick!]

You can do it but as Altissimus says it's a gamble.

A line on the end taking some weight (upwards) can perform miracles.

 

[flashover604]

I believe that Mick. Thanks.

 

[MasterBlaster]

I usually didn't use a notch, just hinged it around...

 

[flashover604]

Butch, by "hinged it around" do you mean just starting your cut on the opposite side of the limb from where you want it to go and just cut through?

 

[MasterBlaster]

Yes. Let the holding wood keep it attached as long as possible.

 

[SkwerI]

Also you need to 'think the cut all the way through' when you tie the rope on it. If you tie the rope too far out, then it will swing nicely but what happens when you finish the cut? If you're tied off past the balance point then the butt end will drop and possibly swing out and hit the object you were trying to clear.

 

[flashover604]

Skwerl, I had thought of that as well. I'm getting fairly decent at figuring my balance points and getting the limbs to go where I want them. I think this situation would really be affected by where the rigging was placed as well, whether it was directly above or off to the side. That whole "Every action has an equal but opposite reaction" law definitely plays a large part in my work. Thanks for the tip.

 

[rfwoody]

Hi flashover604, you remind me of me in some ways regarding this work although you are probably more advanced.

For the "Fundamentals of General Tree Work", there is a used one on Amazon now for $75.
I paid about $80 for mine from Amazon used about 1.5 years ago.

Also, I wonder if Mr. Beranek would have any copies if you sent him a PM from here?

 

[murphy4trees]

Species is mostly irrelevant if the rigging is set right , and a few different cuts can be used effectively.. more important is placement of rope at or near the balance point, maybe well past on real heavy pieces, and pretensioning the lowering line to take a good amount of weight before the cut is made. Need a lot of lift on heavy pieces.. placement of the overhead anchor point is important to ensure it goes your way as well... Pretty amazing the first time you see it!

That cut's not in a book to my knowledge

 

[Bermy]

For small to medium sized near horizontals placing your notch offset to make the branch swing can work amazingly well.
I use it as a cutting option quite a lot, but as others have said, where on the branch it is put (think how much weight is still outboard of the cut) and species can have a lot to do with a successful outcome.
I used it just yesterday on cherry plum, about 8" diameter, got it to swing over about 2' at the tip to miss another fruit tree.
When the piece starts to swing resist the temptation to continue cutting to increase the swing...at some point gravity WILL dominate and the piece will give up and drop straight down!
I do sometimes angle the hingewood as well, to add a bit more holding on the tension side.
When it goes right you look like a rockstar...when it doesn't and it plops straight down...well, you don't.

 

[Marc-Antoine]

Some species hinge nicely and can give you a nice swing, but others are just like Pop!
With some others, you can't tell as it can vary greatly from limb to limb, like the weeping willow.
The gravity is the enemy, but it can help you as well to send the limb where you want. If you don't have a rope to pull the limb sideway, the vertical hinge will get you in trouble because you tend to cut too far hopping the limb starts moving by itself. A face aimed with an angle allows the gravity to pull sideway the limb during the hinging. That needs some room under the limb though.
If I don't have a rigging rope already set in the top, time to time I clip many slings together (I keep a bunch always on my saddle) and tip tie the limb. I get my swing and piece up there the limb after it settled. I add a butt tie (the shortest as possible) with the same slings if I worry about the butt's drop bellow.
Be really careful with the butt's movements. The way you rig the limb (and cut) can makes the butt to jump violently toward you. The butt tie is very helpful against that too.

 

[MasterBlaster]

Yea, don't try it with a cottonwood!

 

[SkwerI]

I tried to swing a live oak limb a couple weeks ago. Huge tree, limb was 6" diameter where I could reach it and still extended another 25' out. Was barely over the end of the roof so I only needed about a 10 degree swing. My notch was perfect and my back cut was perfect but it just moved about 6" and popped off. I went down and looked at the notch, it looked perfect. Hinge was an even 1/2"+ all the way across. I never would have imagined live oak popping off like that. The rest of the tree was hinging nicely.

 

[MasterBlaster]

Damn, LO usually hinges just fine.

 

[SeanKroll]

Rig'n'Wrench territory. Tip-tie, lift and lower, in addition to the above.

High climbing line TIP and a limb-walk. Piece it out.

A lot depends on obstacles in the canopy.

If you're not supporting the limb with a rope, don't get greedy. It doesn't want to go horizontal without a line pulling it sideways. If you face-cut aimed at 4 oclock, it will take some pulling, possibly, or follow the face with a thinner hinge. If your face-cut is aimed at 5 oclock, it will want to hinge-over on its own, with less leverage trying to rip the hinge. (basic concept, not science).

 

[woodworkingboy]

Grain direction is a factor too, even the best bending wood species don't give a hoot about their reputation when the grain is off. Close to the union is where grain can much vary. In the habit of looking at grain when deciding on cuts is a good thing.

 

[murphy4trees]

The OP asked can you get it to swing with a rope..... Just to be clear because it sounds like some of us may be talking about swinging without a rope...

If you can set the rigging up properly, its easy to swing a limb, even a large limb, which this one isn't, and it doesn't matter how well the wood hinges...

If you are talking about swinging it without a rope, I've never been able to get much or a reliable swing by cutting technique alone... Sometimes yes, but sometimes no... Very inconsistent and not something to be trusted in high value scenarios... but its fun to try.. best to do it when you are bombing into wide ope ground

This limb was long and right over a nice dogwood... that's high value... there just wasn't optimal places to set the rigging, but just enough to get it to swing away.. also note that we were pre-tensioning with a skid steer loader, which got a lot of lift on that far-reaching limb... That was key

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[Limbrat]

I add a butt tie (the shortest as possible) if I worry about the butt's drop bellow.
Be really careful with the butt's movements. The way you rig the limb (and cut) can makes the butt to jump violently toward you. The butt tie is very helpful against that too.