PCTREE
Treehouser
What proper job?? do tell
SouthSoundTree-
TreeHouser
- Joined
- Sep 24, 2014
- Messages
- 4,941
My point was that I would be spending money on wages, payroll taxes, w/c, uniforms, ppe, lunches, coffee, etc, for an employee otherwise.
Suppose, all said and done, I'm paying out $25 per man-hour on an employee. Divide that into $800/ month (guess, total guess) with fuel/ maintenance/ repair costs/ transportation costs, etc. If I can save 32 man-hours/ month, I'm at a break even point. If I can do jobs much faster, I can have more time to find more work or not work.
It gives me more diversity of services that largely comes from low-risk situations (material handling).
Dave, do you and Sylvia handle the material, or an employee?
When I hit the ground everything is done
Syliva is an animal. My back was flaming out on me so I finished my degree and got a job with Aetna for a year, claims adjuster
I did tree work in the off hours/weekends. I remember one tree job, went to the office in jacket and tie, did some things then drove to a tree job where they just needed the stuff on the ground, changed clothes, cut a bunch of trees, pulled one kinda nasty one with my dinky little work car, was impressed my car was so multifunctional, changed clothes and back to the office.
It definitely wasn't my cup of tea. One of those things that was a good experience to learn what you don't want to do with your life.
Raj
TreeHouser
I wish I stayed in the army, past 2 RSMs of my old regiment told me I would have been RSM before them..... and the pay is great!
squisher
THE CALM ONE!!!!
Looking back. I would charge more.
L
Levi
Guest
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #33
Nice, simple, I like that, thanks.
Limbrat
TreeHouser
No doubt. I look back now and say; "how in the world did we do what we did by hand?". However, I hate debt. Being in debt is like having a weight around your neck. I would rather stay small and stay out of debt. It's worth it in peace of mind to me to know I don't owe a soul one dime. Simple is good to me too.
SimplyArbor
TreeHouser
I'm also a fan of the low debt approach. I started out biz so my wife could stay home with our boy when he was born. I looked at what I needed to make yearly and have slowly grown since then. Started with f250, then 16' non dumping trailer. Got a bandit 65, chipped into f250. Then bandit 150 and chipped into f250. Then Isuzu NQR dump and fabbed a 12 yard chip box. Picked up a stumper along the way. I think if you can be patient and go into debt in line with your workload that the long term results will be a more organic growth. Just my personal take, never have liked the debt monster hanging over my head... For bigger jobs, rent or sub equipment as needed then you can take on anything!
L
Levi
Guest
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #36
That's the same setup I have!
flushcut
TreeHouser
The mini payed for itself in my first year of owning it. I hear what you are saying about debt but credit is absolutely essential and well worth having. I know a guy in his late forties with no credit as of last year and had a hell of a time getting a loan for his bucket truck. Read: good credit = less interest payed in the end.
Altissimus
TreeHouser
Chipper was the big one , some sorta loader / tractor be next. Mebbee a BIG truck someday.
SouthSoundTree-
TreeHouser
- Joined
- Sep 24, 2014
- Messages
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What is your disposal situation? Do people want chips for sale? Seems like an organic mulch low-supply area, unless your beetle kill situation produces a lot.
chipdrop.in and Craigslist will find buyers, and free takers.
If you can avoid chipping, and just move with a loader, you're better off. A chipper doesn't move logs, pull trees, or have an attachment for grinding stumps or moving snow or other materials.
chipdrop.in and Craigslist will find buyers, and free takers.
If you can avoid chipping, and just move with a loader, you're better off. A chipper doesn't move logs, pull trees, or have an attachment for grinding stumps or moving snow or other materials.
L
Levi
Guest
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #40
One can usually get rid of chips for free in this area, I've never heard of anyone selling them. We pay to get rid of our brush about $70 per ton. So with that being said I know it would be best for us to get a chipper first but a loader would be much more fun! And really, paying to dump the brush aint that bad, I would say on average about $1200 gross will generate 1ton, obviously that can vary quite a bit.
SouthSoundTree-
TreeHouser
- Joined
- Sep 24, 2014
- Messages
- 4,941
Maybe better to re-apply those nutrients where they came from. Have you considered that angle? Paid root zone improvements. Educate people!
People sometimes have given me a hard time when they are calling around looking from free mulch (a commodity) to be delivered at my expense. No thank you. I frequently get homemade jam, smoked salmon, lunch, $75/ truck load.
Try listing it on Craigslist for what you want to get. See who is interested. You can just tell them that it is not available at the moment, and start a list. You can disclose if you don't have mulch right now in the ad if you like.
http://www.treebuzz.com/forum/threads/wood-chips-to-chip-mulch.32258/#post-464118
People sometimes have given me a hard time when they are calling around looking from free mulch (a commodity) to be delivered at my expense. No thank you. I frequently get homemade jam, smoked salmon, lunch, $75/ truck load.
Try listing it on Craigslist for what you want to get. See who is interested. You can just tell them that it is not available at the moment, and start a list. You can disclose if you don't have mulch right now in the ad if you like.
http://www.treebuzz.com/forum/threads/wood-chips-to-chip-mulch.32258/#post-464118
SouthSoundTree-
TreeHouser
- Joined
- Sep 24, 2014
- Messages
- 4,941
http://puyallup.wsu.edu/wp-content/uploads/sites/403/2015/03/wood-chips.pdf
http://puyallup.wsu.edu/wp-content/uploads/sites/403/2015/03/aleopathic-wood-chips.pdf
http://puyallup.wsu.edu/wp-content/uploads/sites/403/2015/03/wood-chip-pathogens.pdf
During my sales pitch for using chips on site, I start with the thumb and end at the pinky, using a hand width for depth indicator and for distance from root collar
Thumb- prevents compaction
index- prevents competition from turf, damage from mowers and string trimmers
middle- moisture retention
ring- soil temperature buffer
pinky-nutrient cycling versus nutrient stripping
I only can think of one place off the top of my head recently where we actually moved the chips, as we could blast them into the recycle bin, with excess going on the driveway. We'd roll the recycle bin a short distance to the bed, and dump, 4 times. A little gravy. It was only about two yards of chips. Some stayed in the driveway.
http://puyallup.wsu.edu/wp-content/uploads/sites/403/2015/03/aleopathic-wood-chips.pdf
http://puyallup.wsu.edu/wp-content/uploads/sites/403/2015/03/wood-chip-pathogens.pdf
During my sales pitch for using chips on site, I start with the thumb and end at the pinky, using a hand width for depth indicator and for distance from root collar
Thumb- prevents compaction
index- prevents competition from turf, damage from mowers and string trimmers
middle- moisture retention
ring- soil temperature buffer
pinky-nutrient cycling versus nutrient stripping
I only can think of one place off the top of my head recently where we actually moved the chips, as we could blast them into the recycle bin, with excess going on the driveway. We'd roll the recycle bin a short distance to the bed, and dump, 4 times. A little gravy. It was only about two yards of chips. Some stayed in the driveway.
Tee
TreeHouser
For you guys that this applied to, what would do differently before the plunge going into the tree service? Ie: before you left the 9-5 world what pieces would you have put in place you may not have?
Tee
Tee
NickfromWI
King of Splices
I was advised at the beginning by a group of local business owners: hold off on workers comp and all those "other" insurances and payroll taxes for as long as you can.
The conversation was lengthy but they laid down a good argument and were unanimous. So that's what I did. I got Gen Liabilty and that's it for a long time.
In retrospect, this was the dumbest thing I could've done. We never had a claim, but this advice cost me tens of thousands of dollars over the years.
Go legit right off the bat. Run your pricing to account for it.
love
nick
The conversation was lengthy but they laid down a good argument and were unanimous. So that's what I did. I got Gen Liabilty and that's it for a long time.
In retrospect, this was the dumbest thing I could've done. We never had a claim, but this advice cost me tens of thousands of dollars over the years.
Go legit right off the bat. Run your pricing to account for it.
love
nick
Tee
TreeHouser
And someone earlier mentioned have great customer service. I agree completely with both. I will have to say when I got an idea of the price for workers comp, I had a WOW moment. (it was 25 or 33%) I got to thinking about it after the talk and realized this was for a climber so the highest price there is I hope. I already have GL and don't think insurance for vehicles will be as bad as I could have imagined.
It's hard to figure out all the pieces for me regarding help,(hire right from the start or later) getting everything to the job etc. Would be great to do work leaving material on site but that's just not an option most of the time
Nick, when you say cost money in the long run, you mean in jobs you turned down because?
Thanks,
Tee
Raj
TreeHouser
I'm making a wild guess, but his rates for tree work couldn't be increased to match the costs once started paying, thus eating up profits?
sotc
Dormant hero!!
If things are slow come hang with some of us a few days here and there. See what you like and don't like.
Credit isn't bad. If you have the work and can keep something busy that makes enough money to pay its own way, that is good debt. Early on I bought a bmg when the right job came in and rented a mini as I had need for it. Like Nick said, bid as if you were a "real" business. Office rent, comp advertising etc. Cause that's what it takes to be in business. Bidding cheap doesn't get your foot in the door, it takes money out of your pocket.
Credit isn't bad. If you have the work and can keep something busy that makes enough money to pay its own way, that is good debt. Early on I bought a bmg when the right job came in and rented a mini as I had need for it. Like Nick said, bid as if you were a "real" business. Office rent, comp advertising etc. Cause that's what it takes to be in business. Bidding cheap doesn't get your foot in the door, it takes money out of your pocket.
NickfromWI
King of Splices
Lemme see if I can explain it differently. It all comes down to what workers comp cost me in year 4 and 5 of my business. So first, example one
NO WORKERS COMP FOR A WHILE
Year 1 gross $60,000
Year 2 gross $150,000
Year 3 gross $300,000 workers comp approx 50 cents on the dollar. Total bill approx $75,000
Year 4 gross $500,000 workers comp approx 50 cents on the dollar. Total bill approx $125,000
Year 5 gross predict 800,000?. Workers comp still at 50 cents/dollar. Total bill approx 200,000
Total Worker Comp fees in first 4 years of business: $400,000. (That makes me sick to see it in writing)
IF I HAD STARTED WORKERS COMP OFF THE BAT
Year 1 gross $60,000. Workers comp rate would've been about $10,000
Year 2 gross $150,000. Workers comp rate would've been about $30,000
Year 3 gross $300,000 workers comp approx same... 50 cents on the dollar. Total bill approx $75,000
Year 4 gross $500,000 workers comp would drop to approx 30 cents on the dollar. Total bill approx $75,000
Year 5 gross predict 800,000?. Workers comp still at 30 cents/dollar. Total workers comp $120,000
Total Workers Comp Fees had I been legit from day 1: $310,000
So right off the bat, I've lost NINETY THOUSAND DOLLARS in the first 5 years of business. NINETY THOUSAND.
$90,000
And that's all on the assumption that no one got hurt. Imagine how FD I woulda been if someone got hurt back when we dind't have workers comp coverage? I woulda been done for instantly. I'm thankful for the great crew I have and glad that it was never an issue.
BUT
NINETY
THOUSAND
DOLLARS!!!!
Just get legit now.
NickfromWI
King of Splices
That, too. I had a few clients that we did work for on the mega cheap because we needed to fill the days. Then when they call back and I tell them we can't do it for $500 any more and they ask why not and I explain and then they ask how much it will be instead and I tell them $900...they basically flip out...but it had to be done.
No one wants to piss anyone off. Make a budget what your real business should cost, and strive to bid for that. The worst thing that would've happened for me is that I might've made more money and not be so bothered by the NINETY THOUSAND DOLLARS I LOST!!!!
NickfromWI
King of Splices
That, too. I had a few clients that we did work for on the mega cheap because we needed to fill the days. Then when they call back and I tell them we can't do it for $500 any more and they ask why not and I explain and then they ask how much it will be instead and I tell them $900...they basically flip out...but it had to be done.
No one wants to piss anyone off. Make a budget what your real business should cost, and strive to bid for that. The worst thing that would've happened for me is that I might've made more money and not be so bothered by the NINETY THOUSAND DOLLARS I LOST!!!!
