Knot less rigging for cheapskates.

[Mick!]

Forgive me if this is old hat and in common usage.
I use a steel fixed eye Krab on the end of my bull rope for rigging, works well, nice and simple.
The only drawback is getting the rope in and releasing the rope through the gate on the ground, with cold wet hands and big gloves the groundies seem to take forever sometimes, causing much gnashing and grinding of teeth up the tree.
I looked at the knot less system August was using and without realizing it got me to thinking.
So how about this? Two fixed eye krabs, one at the end the other running free along the rope.
One could of course use a splice at the end.
We used it today on a fairly routine dismantle and it sped things up both up the tree and for the Gmen.

 

[Altissimus]

I find myself using bigger than necessary steel , even use a much bigger hook than really needed , keeps empty rope weighted and much less fumbly on the ground. Gave up on anyone on the ground knowing knots long ago.

 

[pantheraba]

I like that Mick...will try it.

 

[SouthSoundTree-]

Are you saying that this works better than just clipping right to the bowline on the end, where a splice could be, or simply putting the biner on the end and clipping back to the mid-line?

 

[Mick!]

Better than clipping back to the mid line.

 

[SouthSoundTree-]

How, please?

Seems like a bad bend radius at the first, worse than the working/ non-eye end of the carabiner.

 

[Mick!]

Forget about bend radius and all that, this is not about mega loading, it's a simpler way for groundsmen and climbers to attach and detach branches without having to force rope through or out of a Krab gate.

 

[Altissimus]

Less fumbly , less Climber stress. Simple unhook.

 

[Chris E]

What advantages would you say it has over using a choked sling?

 

[Mick!]

Just the simplicity I guess.

 

[MasterBlaster]

This is all cool n shit, but if my groundies can't cypher untieing a RB, then I don't want them on my job site.

 

[stig]

Agreed, but it isn't about cyphering, but about speed and ease.
We use spliced rigging lines, carabiners and sling for the same reason.

 

[SouthSoundTree-]

I looked at the knot less system August was using and without realizing it got me to thinking.

Are you speaking of using round slings and carabiners?
What knotless system are you referencing?

I don't work with large, wet gloves. I'm an Atlas blue or gray latex palm guy. Is the important point that you have two large, stiff tool to operate, on in either hand, rather than a rigging rope?




When you referred to a bull rope, I think big rigging, rather than my normal 1/2" three-strand light rigging line. Personally, I don't call it a bull rope until it strong (up to this point has been 9/16 double-braid, as my work doesn't call for heavy rope rigging much. I might have read that "bull" part to mean heavy rigging, therefore the bend radius comment.


I usually choke the biner right on the rope, or put a half-hitch or two before the choke on smaller diameter pieces to prevent torquing the biner.

 

[SouthSoundTree-]

This is all cool n shit, but if my groundies can't cypher untieing a RB, then I don't want them on my job site.

I can't work with untrained ground workers. Unclipping is easier than untying. Clipping is easier than tying with less room for human error, and easier to check. Both are easy enough, but as Stig mentioned, its the ease and efficiency.

Since I provide all my own gear, I'm game to learn new and better ways, without being afraid to spend some extra money for rigging gear, if I can afford it, looking at the Return on Investment.

 

[MasterBlaster]

No

It's ALL about the cyphering.

 

[SouthSoundTree-]

You use that term, cyphering. What is it you mean by that, exactly? I've heard it used, but may miss nuance.

 

[Chris E]

Ide say it originates from decipher

 

[MasterBlaster]

To understand...

 

[SouthSoundTree-]

That's how I've taken it. Its an odd turn of phrase. I like odd turns of phrase, personally. Its doesn't help me make myself clearly understood to some people, some times.

 

[MasterBlaster]

The dickins you say.

 

[SouthSoundTree-]

I had an English girlfriend for a while and worked with a bunch of Brits and other international (including Australians) conservation volunteers prior to tree climbing. The regular day to day saying are one thing, the Cockney rhyming slang was a whole 'nother thing.

Stitch in time and such.

 

[Mick!]

Are you speaking of using round slings and carabiners?
What knotless system are you referencing?

I don't work with large, wet gloves. I'm an Atlas blue or gray latex palm guy. Is the important point that you have two large, stiff tool to operate, on in either hand, rather than a rigging rope?




When you referred to a bull rope, I think big rigging, rather than my normal 1/2" three-strand light rigging line. Personally, I don't call it a bull rope until it strong (up to this point has been 9/16 double-braid, as my work doesn't call for heavy rope rigging much. I might have read that "bull" part to mean heavy rigging, therefore the bend radius comment.


I usually choke the biner right on the rope, or put a half-hitch or two before the choke on smaller diameter pieces to prevent torquing the biner.

I used the term bull rope specifically on this forum because I believe Americans use that where as we usually say lowering rope or rigging line. No biggy.
August posted a vid about a knot less rigging system, I wasn't that bothered about it (a more cynical soul than I would say that he wasn't either!) but watching the lads struggle to get the rope out of the 'biner a lot set me musing.
Lot of people talking about slings and such, and yes, I've used them and they're fine.
I am a big fan of simplicity and keep the things I take up trees to an absolute minimum, no pulleys unless really needed, if it is just a couple of things to be lowered, take a wrap round the tree rather than a lowering device, self lower if possible and safe.
So on a medium dismantle I like to climb with the topper, lifeline, wire core flip and the lowering line to the rear of my harness.
As I said before I think a steel ring spliced into one end of the bull rope would mean you could use this method if you like (just slip the fixed eye on the other end of the rope and run it down if needed) or you could clip the biner on the ring and clip back on the rope in the normal fashion.
A half hitch or two in front of ring/biner would ease any bend radius/shock load/metal on metal worries.

 

[Raj]

I prefer knots, but my ground help is different each time, so I'll switch the rigging line around to the spliced end and use a steel biner. Sometimes they can figure out the triple lock, sometimes the even double lock is confounding. I've had the ground help so useless that knots were too much, and steel biners ended up through basement windows. Thankfully they were HO's sons.

 

[woodslinger]

I usually just clip a steel biner to a bowline on the end of my lowering line, which is super simple for me and my groundies. I can see the advantage of using 2 biners for a solid clip and un-clip as opposed to getting the soft rope out of the biner, but in my case the autolocking biner is what causes the most hang-ups. I'm thinking about getting a steel rope snap for that purpose.
Odly enough I have never had a problem waiting for someone to UNtie a knot, they just don't know how to tie the knot that I think they should tie, but that is not a usual situation. And I like being able to just flip the crab around a limb, catch it, clip it, and go. rather then flip the rope, tuck, flip, pull, tighten etc. I can set it up with the steel crab one handed.