how to charge for hours worked?

sotc said:
I charge the same money for each man working, including when I'm on the job. It doesn't change if I'm using the chipper or not, the bucket or not etc. I still need that equipment paid for at the end of the month. And yes, profit, if there's no profit, it's just a job, not really a business
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How do you manage that? Seems like you would be charging crazy amounts to prune apple trees or to do small removals if you're putting in the price for a bucket/loader/crane, or whatever. I mean, I understand that you have to make enough to pay for it in the end, but it must hurt you on some smaller jobs, no?

I've pretty much figured out how much to charge per man with a truck and chipper, which I try not to go under. I've been wondering if I should just add in a daily rate for other equipment, based on what rental places price. So the mini would be 250$/day + fuel, lift you be around 500$/day, etc.
 
I've wondered for a while how you guys still charge full price for a tree you get down in half the time?
 
When an up front price is demanded that is what gets charged here, and I try to make sure I have plenty of room (1 1/2 to 2wice what I figure it will take).

I usually go by the hour and come in a bit under the estimate.

There have been jobs that took 1/2 what we figured and they got charged accordingly if hourly, or the full price if a fixed bid price.
 
People sometimes try to ask how long something will take to do? I ask if it will be windy on the day we do it, or raining, or...

I don't want people to say, well it took you less time, do I get a break? When I do get asked that, I ask if they would pay more if we went long, or pay to replace something that broke in the process.

Or that it's un-American to ask to pay less because we busted our butts, and bring lots of skills to the table.

So and so said two days, so if you can do it in one, it must be cheaper for you to do it? No, it's worth what it's worth. Would you pay more if it took us all week?
 
I'd love to price by the hour. My numbers would be a bit more consistent at the weeks end. I don't seem to get an eager response when I propose it to people. They sort of respond like they don't want to gamble on how long it might take. Because I won't promise them 8 hours. I've said I estimate it at 8 hours roughly but t might be 6 or with some headaches it might be 10. They sort of clam up at the idea of not knowing exactly how much they will be spending. Maybe i sell the idea wrong? I'd like to roll hourly bidding into my schedule. Not entirely. But some of my customers that have vague requests or are unsure how much exactly they want to get done in this round of tree work.
 
matdand said:
How do you manage that? Seems like you would be charging crazy amounts to prune apple trees or to do small removals if you're putting in the price for a bucket/loader/crane, or whatever. I mean, I understand that you have to make enough to pay for it in the end, but it must hurt you on some smaller jobs, no?

I've pretty much figured out how much to charge per man with a truck and chipper, which I try not to go under. I've been wondering if I should just add in a daily rate for other equipment, based on what rental places price. So the mini would be 250$/day + fuel, lift you be around 500$/day, etc.
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How? I just figure this many hours for this many guys times this rate. My comp doesn't care if I'm trimming fruit trees and hedges or rigging out 150' fir trees, I still pay the same rates so I HAVE to pass that on. We also have a minimum bid to show up with the crew, sometimes it's a 20 minute job but you can't eat travel time on little jobs so it's what I have to do to make money. I keep 4 guys, 1 Secretary and myself busy full time so losing a few little jobs is no big deal. Like Sean said about finishing early, they wouldn't like it if I adjusted the price the other way, when you eat it on a job, just remember you made out on others, do a good job regardless.
 
When dead wooding/ storm damage/ canopy cleaning, the customer wants 6 limbs out that I/ they want removed for safety, etc. I ask what they want done with the 30% or so of additional limbs I'll most likely find when I'm up close, that are also meeting the same criteria as those already identified. I can do those 6 limbs, planning my day around the work load that can be identified from the ground, and report back when I'm down, and give them a bid on the additional work for another day, or the same, time possibly permitting.

A canopy raise to 20' is concrete enough to bid price it, for me, and harder to sell as hourly.

Yesterday, I asked our hourly pruning customer if, in addition to the hangers, if I should take off a large cracked for limb over there front sidewalk which couldn't / wasnt be seen from the ground. And while there, should I reduce a large forked fir limb over the house and crowding the ornamental maple. At the end of the job, after clearing storm damage from a tree, there were some dead limbs showing with no target, but unsightly. She wanted me to reclimb it. No problem.

I still came in at roughly the forecasted 4 hours.

Many bawk at hourly.

I set priorities on the different tasks/trees, and check-in as needed on the time, or tell them $xxx.xx for 4 hours of pruning, chipping, cleanup, and happy to focus on the more technical or equipment-oriented work like chipping, moving logs, and they can save $xxx.xx per hour by finishing clean up we don't get to, and the can stay on a budget.

Also, selling spurless maintenance climbing helps. I climbed (yes, skipped the line setting and Wraptor), as a 25' extension ladder accessed the lower/lowest limbs on ladder-like big fir limbs. 6 trees, four hours, happy customers who will refer.

Hard to sell sometimes, but its possible some times.
 
I occasionally just give a day rate if the bid is too complex to write out or the client isn't sure what they want (or they talk too much). Many of my repeat clients don't even want a bid so we bill hourly.
 
We had one lady call us after the job was completed saying that the job didn't take long enough and she wanted a discount. I think I may have murmured when I met with her "this should take about 2 hours..."

I need to be mindful of not relating a time on the job. I also wonder if there should be a disclaimer somewhere "the price is the same regardless of how long it takes to complete it."

To me the real answer is what Sean said: would they expect to kick in a few hundred extra if it took an hour more? 95% of our customers would not even consider it.


love
nick
 
sotc said:
How? I just figure this many hours for this many guys times this rate. My comp doesn't care if I'm trimming fruit trees and hedges or rigging out 150' fir trees, I still pay the same rates so I HAVE to pass that on. We also have a minimum bid to show up with the crew, sometimes it's a 20 minute job but you can't eat travel time on little jobs so it's what I have to do to make money. I keep 4 guys, 1 Secretary and myself busy full time so losing a few little jobs is no big deal. Like Sean said about finishing early, they wouldn't like it if I adjusted the price the other way, when you eat it on a job, just remember you made out on others, do a good job regardless.
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:thumbup:
 
I bid only hourly where its hard to define scope such as hedge trimming or very difficult access/terrain.

If a customer wanted a discount based on taking less time than they expected I would immediately lose all respect for them...
 
I had a customer actually ask on an hourly job if she was paying the guy that had to sharpen his chain and change out a saw filter once. We were cutting some old rotten wood down in a rocky creek bed and hauling it out.
My reply was that it was her job that was causing the wear and tear on the equipment that day, of course she is paying him. He is NOT on a break. I fired her after that ... That way, she could only ask once..
 
I think if you start running multiple crews and you personally aren't onsite, bidding hourly can be very nice. We shoot for between 70-80/man hour in Hawaii for most pruning jobs and 90-100 for larger removal projects when we have to bid by the hour plus the added costs like log disposal etc. It takes a lot of the pressure off the crew members, and myself and if things do go much slower than anticipated the client pays for that risk as it really should be. We have several large projects we've been billing hourly for years, and we really enjoy those projects, we make good money and the consistency and simplicity of the billing is great.

Now, if you are running one crew and you have your skill set on site you can hedge your bets quite well and usually come out on top when bidding projects based on market value from my experience in the past.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
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I did quite a bit better yesterday and today, today was a small trimming /canopy raising (solo job, HO cleanup) for mowing and street clearance, $200, was packed up an on the road in an hour and 1/2. yesterday was 4 dead or dying pines, some wire and fence clearance issues, bit 550 which should be higher, was done in 5 hours, but still had to take a trailer load of pine brush. I'm still too low on estimates, but getting better.
 
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