woodworkingboy
TreeHouser
He must mean the strap, Gary, not sticking the bar too far into it. Page 293 in GB's great book. On the other hand, maybe not. 
Homeowner Boo Boo
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pantheraba
More biners!!!
As in use the tip of the bar to nip the strap, not bury the gut of the bar in the strap?
woodworkingboy
TreeHouser
Yessum. Nip enough of it and gravity does the rest.
pantheraba
More biners!!!
I like it...thanks.
Welcome, Zane!
You should post some pics of the pumpkins you and your father have cut over the years, if you are of a mind to.
Gypo
TreeHouser
I'd love to post some picts, we never took many as we were bushelling and didn't want to waste time.
Many trees that have excessive amounts of headlean (talking conifers) also have some rot, windshake, or white speck. This means that the holding wood (aka hinge wood) may not hold as much as it would if the tree were sound. Because the holding wood is weak, cutting too much of it will hang your bar, even before the strap is cut.
As far as cutting the strap, yes I would propose cutting it with the tip or middle of your bar. Dogging in when cutting the strap is not generally advisable as you are more likely to get your saw hung.
It can, and does, depend on the tree, and where you need to put it.
Fortunately I had the luxury of learning out in the woods, where the only thing truly in jeopardy was my own well being.
Hope this clears things up.
Zane
Many trees that have excessive amounts of headlean (talking conifers) also have some rot, windshake, or white speck. This means that the holding wood (aka hinge wood) may not hold as much as it would if the tree were sound. Because the holding wood is weak, cutting too much of it will hang your bar, even before the strap is cut.
As far as cutting the strap, yes I would propose cutting it with the tip or middle of your bar. Dogging in when cutting the strap is not generally advisable as you are more likely to get your saw hung.
It can, and does, depend on the tree, and where you need to put it.
Fortunately I had the luxury of learning out in the woods, where the only thing truly in jeopardy was my own well being.
Hope this clears things up.
Zane
pantheraba
More biners!!!
Yes, it does...thanks for the clarification.
Depends on the lean.
If it is only moderate and I'm simply trying to avoid damage to a valuable log, I go from the inside out like Burnham.
If there is severe lean, and I fear it may tear a slab out of the tree or a root out of the ground, I go outside in.
You remember wrong, Gary.
Burnham had always gone inside out, but after Jerry and I related a couple of tales of slabbing and rootpull, he decided that outside in was smart in extreme situatiuons.
I see no reason for binding the stem with a borecut, unless the lean is so extreme that you can't cut the hinge thin enough to avoid a barberchair without getting your bar pinched by the setting tree.
In that case I use a different tecnique altogether.
Either bore the middle of the tree out before making the face or simply Coos bay the sucker!
Merle Nelson
TreeHouser
Thanks Stig.
rumination
Migratory Hippie Arbolist
Even after seeing multiple diagrams of the Coos bay cut I still don't understand it (I'm slow sometimes). I think I need to see someone do it, or at least a video.
woodworkingboy
TreeHouser
The Coos bay cut seems more of what it isn't than what it is. Not a precision thing.
pantheraba
More biners!!!
Now THAT is a fine Zen comment if I ever heard one...Master.
woodworkingboy
TreeHouser
Haha, actually Gary, i was thinking myself that there is a zen element to it. "Since it is all too clear, it takes time to grasp it". ~ Zen Proverb.
I know I've pondered Jerry's description in his book a lot.
I know I've pondered Jerry's description in his book a lot.
MasterBlaster
Administrator Emeritus
Ha!
rumination
Migratory Hippie Arbolist
GrappleYarder
TreeHouser
As this thread has devolved into a barber chair theme I thought this video might be interest. Came across the WCBC faller training video series, this one on heavy leaners, a few weeks ago. The money shot is around 9 min as the cut pops and the swamp ground cedar stump gives a pretty good shake.
As per MB instructions
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/3EDybH4jjTg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
This is using the Insert Video icon in the reply interface. Figured out you have to shut off the "Automatically parse links in text" in the miscellaneous options section to get that to work.
As per MB instructions
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/3EDybH4jjTg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
This is using the Insert Video icon in the reply interface. Figured out you have to shut off the "Automatically parse links in text" in the miscellaneous options section to get that to work.
MasterBlaster
Administrator Emeritus
I wouldn't say devolved...
Here's how to embed videos;
1) Do NOT copy/paste the page url.
2) Click the "share" button - a embed button will appear underneath/to the left.
3) Scroll down and click the "embed" button - a blue highlighted address will appear.
4) Copy/paste THAT address in your post.
Here's how to embed videos;
1) Do NOT copy/paste the page url.
2) Click the "share" button - a embed button will appear underneath/to the left.
3) Scroll down and click the "embed" button - a blue highlighted address will appear.
4) Copy/paste THAT address in your post.
Tucker943
Bamboo Plantation Owner
When I bore cut, I trip it from the inside out if the tree only has slight lean. I don't keep the head against the tree though. As I near the back of the tree I slide the head out from the action and just keep the mid belly or tip of the bar in the action. Hard lean, I nip it from the outside and don't particularly care where I do. Below the bore, diagonal down into the holding strap, whatever. I just trip the fugger. Only with the bar tip though. Never dogged into the tree. Step back, reach forward and nip the strap. Plain and simple.
rumination
Migratory Hippie Arbolist
Was that first cut demonstrated on the small tree the Coos Bay cut?
Reddog
TreeHouser
No, not sure what you call what he did.
squisher
THE CALM ONE!!!!
That is how I was taught to cut and how I dispatch head leaners most all the time.
Gypo
TreeHouser
For clarification-
After watching the video I though I might clarify. The reason for strapping trees, or cutting as much wood as possible before making a cut that will release the tree is to prevent ripping or barber chair.
The only reason you need to do it is because you feel that your saw won't be able to cut enough wood before the tree starts to rip. If the tree is small and has minimal head lean, you may not need any special cutting technique, just cut as normal. With increases size or lean, you may have to cut some wood out of the backcut, leaving some wood to hold the tree until you are ready to release it. The amount of wood that needs cut depends on- lean, size of tree, hp of saw, chain speed, and chain condition. Additionally, if you have a poor (or some times a lack of) escape route and want to make damn sure it can't rip and kill you cause you can't get away.
I've done this alot on steep ground cutting big alders. The slopes may be upwards of 100%, extremely brushy, loose soil, and an all around pain to get away from the stump. In many units on the Oregon coast the ground is so terrible you have to establish foot holds on the ground to stay put, and moving one foot hold may lead to slipping off down the hillside a long way. That combined with hard leaning heavy alder is a recipe for disaster. If you try to run, you may slip and actually end up underneath the tree. On the big ones, say 24" or more, I make a face as deep as I can without being pinched, usually about 1/3. This face needs to be wide, and clean, with no kickers. Then, on the back cut, step around the off side and cut into the sap perpendicular to the face, and cut in about a bar width. In effect you are cutting the corner off, do this on both sides. This has made it so there is less wood in the back cut, so that you can cut in off quicker. Then make the back cut as normal.
Hope this helps. Wish I could draw a picture.
After watching the video I though I might clarify. The reason for strapping trees, or cutting as much wood as possible before making a cut that will release the tree is to prevent ripping or barber chair.
The only reason you need to do it is because you feel that your saw won't be able to cut enough wood before the tree starts to rip. If the tree is small and has minimal head lean, you may not need any special cutting technique, just cut as normal. With increases size or lean, you may have to cut some wood out of the backcut, leaving some wood to hold the tree until you are ready to release it. The amount of wood that needs cut depends on- lean, size of tree, hp of saw, chain speed, and chain condition. Additionally, if you have a poor (or some times a lack of) escape route and want to make damn sure it can't rip and kill you cause you can't get away.
I've done this alot on steep ground cutting big alders. The slopes may be upwards of 100%, extremely brushy, loose soil, and an all around pain to get away from the stump. In many units on the Oregon coast the ground is so terrible you have to establish foot holds on the ground to stay put, and moving one foot hold may lead to slipping off down the hillside a long way. That combined with hard leaning heavy alder is a recipe for disaster. If you try to run, you may slip and actually end up underneath the tree. On the big ones, say 24" or more, I make a face as deep as I can without being pinched, usually about 1/3. This face needs to be wide, and clean, with no kickers. Then, on the back cut, step around the off side and cut into the sap perpendicular to the face, and cut in about a bar width. In effect you are cutting the corner off, do this on both sides. This has made it so there is less wood in the back cut, so that you can cut in off quicker. Then make the back cut as normal.
Hope this helps. Wish I could draw a picture.
Gypo
TreeHouser
Starting with a clean face is mandatory for all "proper" falling. It is especially important when dealing with a tree that is likely to chair.
woodworkingboy
TreeHouser
Nicely done educational vid, thanks for posting.
Leon. picture no proper face cut and the leaner cut in from both sides of the tree, leaving a strip of wood from the front to the back of the tree aligned to the lean, or call it from the the compression side to the tension side remaining wood. (Looks like a mohawk haircut strip that the tree is standing on). Cut the strip from the back (tension side). That is my understanding of the Coo's Bay.
I could well be wrong, but it seems dicey to me to cut a deep wide face into a heavy leaner. Maybe you end up with a tree ready to bust out if a bird lands on it. Doesn't that defy most common practices about dealing with heavy leaners?
Leon. picture no proper face cut and the leaner cut in from both sides of the tree, leaving a strip of wood from the front to the back of the tree aligned to the lean, or call it from the the compression side to the tension side remaining wood. (Looks like a mohawk haircut strip that the tree is standing on). Cut the strip from the back (tension side). That is my understanding of the Coo's Bay.
I could well be wrong, but it seems dicey to me to cut a deep wide face into a heavy leaner. Maybe you end up with a tree ready to bust out if a bird lands on it. Doesn't that defy most common practices about dealing with heavy leaners?
Gypo
TreeHouser
As a point of interest, I've seen guys cut hard leaning alder by making the face progressively deeper and deeper until the tree falls over. The tree is most often still attached to the stump when it hits the ground, and the tree has to be cut loose.
And they were good fallers.
Never liked the idea of it myself, but it worked for them.
Deep is relative... If a tree is leaning super hard, you may not be able to make a face thats even 4" deep. Its hard to put in words, and say what to do with every scenario without actually being there.
And they were good fallers.
Never liked the idea of it myself, but it worked for them.
Deep is relative... If a tree is leaning super hard, you may not be able to make a face thats even 4" deep. Its hard to put in words, and say what to do with every scenario without actually being there.
