HitchHiker2 tending, sitback, configurations?

[Bermy]

What Grendel said about initially tying your hitch so tight it kinks the rope slightly to the side is exactly what I do. Then bounce on your role and it stretches and sets enough to climb normally. IMO getting your hitch tight from the get go is really important.

My simplest fix for smoother tending was to add a simple bent gate biner to the bottom for an increased bend radius. This worked well when I was using 1/2" rope (xtc fire). Once I switched to Tachyon 11.7mm I found I no longer needed it, the system was tending so much more easily with the slightly smaller rope.

For some reason the drag and drop feature doesn't work when using my tablet, so I'll have to add the photos next time I'm on my laptop!

 

[soup-n-sandwich]

Hey Chris, I've got a very similar combination on my Hitch Hiker. I ended up getting 140' of 11mm HTP in a bag o' rope from treestuff and it took me forever to find a system that worked with it. Using 8mm ocean poly is the only combo that I felt produced decent results. Here's a picture of what I've got. I don't climb on it a lot, but my apprentice climber loves this setup.

View attachment 73848


I'd not recommend the 11mm HTP either. I feel like there's a reason I got a full hank of the stuff for less than half price from that random bag o' rope. Also, a friend of mine bought a new 600' spool of the 13mm HTP from a tower climbing company that was going under and he didn't seem pleased with its performance. The stuff is just super stiff and it's hard to get a system to run smoothly in it.

Chris, the HH with 8mm ocean poly is the best setup I've found for the 11mm HTP, but let me know if you come across anything better

Wow Hunnicutt,
Thanks. There isn't a lot of things that I feel or believe that other people agree with! Thanks for speaking up. Yeah the Ocean is 8mm which is a bit smaller than the RIT or Beeline most recommended for the HH but enough is enough. I've been bouncing around with this thing for a year and up until I switched over the the Ocean I didn't think I would ever resolve this issue. I was second guessing everything I purchased. When I mentioned that I was using the 8mm Ocean I thought I would be ran into the ground because it wasn't the norm...but alot of this equipment is highly dependent on the combo of rope/hitch cord it's used with. It's like have a Windows PC..you never know what's under the hood. It could run great or crappy.

At this point money is tight. If it wasn't I would try everything out there. I made these decisions based on recommendations to me as a novice. Since I know little it's hard to know if it's gear or me...I usually bet on the issue being me. In this case maybe not.
Thanks for your input. I will try other ropes and let you know.

 

[soup-n-sandwich]

What Grendel said about initially tying your hitch so tight it kinks the rope slightly to the side is exactly what I do. Then bounce on your role and it stretches and sets enough to climb normally. IMO getting your hitch tight from the get go is really important.

My simplest fix for smoother tending was to add a simple bent gate biner to the bottom for an increased bend radius. This worked well when I was using 1/2" rope (xtc fire). Once I switched to Tachyon 11.7mm I found I no longer needed it, the system was tending so much more easily with the slightly smaller rope.

For some reason the drag and drop feature doesn't work when using my tablet, so I'll have to add the photos next time I'm on my laptop!

Thank you my friend for the info. I have noticed this as well. One thing I'm still struggling with is when I reset the knot to take out the slack after my initial loading my knot slips and I have the same slack I started with. I'll have to work on this. Nobody else is talking about it so I'm sure it's my bad.

 

[Bermy]

Once you have made your VT wraps and crossovers, and threaded your hitch cord through the other side of the dogbone, really pull it TIGHT. You will be pulling things a bit sideways.
Hold that tension then tie your double fisherman's termination knot again as tight as you can.
When you then dress the whole thing there is always a bit of slack that will allow it all to sit straight again.

I'm using 10mm beeline, I would have thought OP would be a bit too stiff to really work well?

 

[soup-n-sandwich]

Once you have made your VT wraps and crossovers, and threaded your hitch cord through the other side of the dog bone, really pull it TIGHT. You will be pulling things a bit sideways.
Hold that tension then tie your double fisherman's termination knot again as tight as you can.
When you then dress the whole thing there is always a bit of slack that will allow it all to sit straight again.

I'm using 10mm beeline, I would have thought OP would be a bit too stiff to really work well?

Hmm so your using a VT hitch...I haven't tried that.
Yeah I did pull it really tight. I have noticed there is a wrong way and a right way to apply the knot...I just haven't figured out which is which. More than once I made the knot so there was almost no slack. It's the way I made the loop. I'm almost certain if I start the loop either under or over the dog bone (I don't mean on top of the dog bone but starting my loop upwards or downwards) it makes a difference in slack. At least that's the theory.

I seem to recall a rule of thumb that hitch cord should be at least 2.5 mm smaller than the rope it's used on. I can't remember where I read that or maybe a pro told me that...so I always stayed away from 10mm cord using the HTP 11 mm line.

I now understand why the HH doesn't come with hitch cord anymore...too many variables. Maybe the HH should come as a kit..climbing rope, hitch cord the HH and a free pen.

 

[Bermy]

Yes, the VT is the preferred hitch for the HH,

For hitch cord diameter, I interpret that size statement to be no MORE than 2-3mm difference...swings and roundabouts...

I tie five upward wraps, then one downward crossover (facing me) and haul it tight. I'm 5'3" and about 115lbs!!

Here's the picture of my setup with the extra biner before switching to Tachyon, so the difference now is I don't need the biner or a pulley for tending. Also I had to add a wrap, and now my crossover comes in the front.
The other picture is using a Petzl basic (which is part of my knee ascender kit) for 3:1 if needed

 

[soup-n-sandwich]

Yes, the VT is the preferred hitch for the HH,

For hitch cord diameter, I interpret that size statement to be no MORE than 2-3mm difference...swings and roundabouts...

I tie five upward wraps, then one downward crossover (facing me) and haul it tight. I'm 5'3" and about 115lbs!!

Here's the picture of my setup with the extra biner before switching to Tachyon, so the difference now is I don't need the biner or a pulley for tending. Also I had to add a wrap, and now my crossover comes in the front.
The other picture is using a Petzl basic (which is part of my knee ascender kit) for 3:1 if needed

Oh MORE than 2-3mm difference. Hm well I certainly could have remembered that state incorrectly.
Cool. wow your actually smaller than I am. Now that's a first. Oh my. Your a girl!? Hey that's pretty cool!
Oh I'm confused. A VT is the French prusik with the two or three braids is it not? I thought this was a standard prusik wrap no?
Thanks for sharing. The more information the better. The variables with this stuff is endless.

 

[Bermy]

The VT is wraps and braids, how many wraps and how many braids depends on those variables!! Type of climb line, type of hitch cord, weight...

Clever lad, you figured out I'm a girl, wonder how
And yes, I think I'm the smallest climber here...

 

[Sgriff]

Hey girl,that's crafty using lil cord for tending 👍

 

[Bermy]

Actually, it has evolved since then...two thicknesses of the little cord covered in shrinkwrap...it was too loose just like that in the picture (Fidoe HH tender Mark I)

 

[Sgriff]

Dang you emphasized my point exactly,crafty....

 

[soup-n-sandwich]

The VT is wraps and braids, how many wraps and how many braids depends on those variables!! Type of climb line, type of hitch cord, weight...

Clever lad, you figured out I'm a girl, wonder how
And yes, I think I'm the smallest climber here...

Hm. So you consider the HH prusik a VT? I guess it's another version of a VT although I've never look at it that way. So the lighter you are the less friction needed, therefore less wraps. So I likely should not be running the normal amount for warps as I'm a bit light than most guys. Maybe 4 or 5 wraps? Some guys are running 7 wraps. Of course the rope and hitch cord also matter.

So the lower biner on your setup is to help ease the angle of the rope when tending? Interesting

I think I just got set up! lol It's a set up! You guys didn't warn me...I'm new here for crying out loud?!
Kidding...
Yeah I figured it out I'm fairly sharp lad...a picture is worth a couple of words. Well that picture and your size. You see, my size is what happens when your mom is 4' 10" tall and under 100lbs.
Are you an arborist like most of the folks here or maybe a rec climber...rock climbing...or something else? I admit, it caught me by surprise


Chris

 

[BOTS]

Bermy is a full on Arborist and She rocks it!!

 

[Levi]

Yes, the VT is the preferred hitch for the HH,

For hitch cord diameter, I interpret that size statement to be no MORE than 2-3mm difference...swings and roundabouts...

I tie five upward wraps, then one downward crossover (facing me) and haul it tight. I'm 5'3" and about 115lbs!!

Here's the picture of my setup with the extra biner before switching to Tachyon, so the difference now is I don't need the biner or a pulley for tending. Also I had to add a wrap, and now my crossover comes in the front.
The other picture is using a Petzl basic (which is part of my knee ascender kit) for 3:1 if needed

Nice 3:1 set up! I have the same one except with the wire gate revolver.

 

[soup-n-sandwich]

Bermy is a full on Arborist and She rocks it!!

That's pretty damn cool.
Hey Scott. Chris here. Thanks for chiming in.

 

[BOTS]

Welcome aboard Chris!

 

[Tim_B.]

Tim this method is so whacked but works really well?! I never would have guessed that the HH would actually tends better then the "normal" method of using the tether on the top of the HH biner!
I'm kind of blown away. Now this isn't a done deal yet because my bridge is still really short. Too short.
Also, with this setup I can use the Weaver chest harness as is and it tends well.

If I use the ascender to get off the ground than "rest", when I put tension back on the rope with the foot ascender you do loss about 5" of travel as the pulley loads and flips over to the other side of the biner, but once it's loaded it doesn't do that again.

Where are you connecting your knee ascender bungee? I'm not sure if this setup will work until I get out of my basement but so far I'm impressed.

I also really like DMc's configuration as it completely eliminates the other biner.

I see what you guys are saying about the over the shoulder straps supporting your back when your in the sitting position. I'm getting that with the chest harness but I would image it would be even better with the lanyard of purpose built harness.
The only real downside...and this is minor is there is a bit more friction on the HH when "limb walking" out from the TIP. This is because the pulley is angling the rope back towards you, causing friction from the spine of the HH.

Again the tending is boarder-line ridiculous! Better than the "factory" suggestions. Now I can see why/how DMc's tending works well also.
Now I have to try it for real with a longer bridge and the knee ascender.

Hey, soup! In answer to your question of "Where do I connect my knee ascender bungee?", the answer for me is that I run a Gibbs type of ascender above everything else, and I hang a biner off of it, which holds a 4 foot long endless loop sling to my harness, but is also the place I hang my knee ascender's bungee cord. I just hook my thumb through the cable that keeps the Gibbs ascender's pin from getting lost, and glide the ascender up the rope as I rope walk. The knee ascender follows easily because of the bungee. I'll try to find a link to the ascender I'm describing.

Ok, here's a link to a product that looks very close to what I use.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B01K...i+ascender&dpPl=1&dpID=51j6Ig7LjtL&ref=plSrch

The price on this Amazon listing is nonsensical. The cost of the standard issue device made out of aluminum is about $70.00. It should come with a quick-release pin. There was another one listed on Amazon for around $70, but it had a more permanent bolt and nut arrangement, which is no good for us for the way I would wish it to work.

Anyway, the photo of the item shows the metal cable I hook my thumb into to push the ascender up the rope. It gives almost zero resistance to being advanced, and feels super lightweight. So its purpose for me is as my emergency backup to the rest of my methods of attachment to my ropes. It's a cammed ascender instead of a toothed ascender, and so is easier on the rope. It gives me one more way to stay attached, so I can stop midway up and make an adjustment to my Hitch Hiker system, if need be.

It also pulls double duty, because once I get to the top, I just add a small pulley to the biner attached to it, and use it for my 3 to 1 mechanical advantage system for coming back in from limbwalks.

That's about all for now.

Tim

 

[Bermy]

Thanks for the endorsement Scott I try!
Don't feel bad Chris, it's a zinger we like to spring on new member...how long before the new guy realizes Bermy is a girl

A VT is a French prussik, and as far as I remember that was the hitch recommended when I bought my HH (mine came with beeline cord straight from Paul)

Since the HH first came out, our natural instinct to tweak and improve and try something different has overtaken the first basic setup, and guys are using different hitch cord and trying different hitches, in the end within the bounds of safety, do what works for you.

Yes, that simple bent gate biner is all I ever used to help the tending characteristics of the HH when I was using full 1/2" rope. It was dead simple, no locking gate (not life support) and easy to clip out the tail if I had to relocate my HH, I did try a pulley later, but it was too fiddley when I wanted to unclip the HH and pass it round a branch.
Like I said though, now using Tachyon, I really have not needed anything extra for tending. Bent gate biner is ready on my harness if I do want it at any time though.

The Petzl basic is my knee ascender, I clip a homemade footloop on the bottom, and a length of bungee cord on top. My bungee goes up over my waist belt and down to my foot Pantin. It works for me.
If I ever need a 3:1 I just unclip the footloop and bungee, put them in my pocket, add a revolver to the bottom of the basic, clip it in and go.
The bent gate biner comes into its own again then as it captures the tail of the 3:1...otherwise it can sag out of reach!

 

[soup-n-sandwich]

Thanks for the endorsement Scott I try!
Don't feel bad Chris, it's a zinger we like to spring on new member...how long before the new guy realizes Bermy is a girl

A VT is a French prussik, and as far as I remember that was the hitch recommended when I bought my HH (mine came with beeline cord straight from Paul)

Since the HH first came out, our natural instinct to tweak and improve and try something different has overtaken the first basic setup, and guys are using different hitch cord and trying different hitches, in the end within the bounds of safety, do what works for you.

Yes, that simple bent gate biner is all I ever used to help the tending characteristics of the HH when I was using full 1/2" rope. It was dead simple, no locking gate (not life support) and easy to clip out the tail if I had to relocate my HH, I did try a pulley later, but it was too fiddley when I wanted to unclip the HH and pass it round a branch.
Like I said though, now using Tachyon, I really have not needed anything extra for tending. Bent gate biner is ready on my harness if I do want it at any time though.

The Petzl basic is my knee ascender, I clip a homemade footloop on the bottom, and a length of bungee cord on top. My bungee goes up over my waist belt and down to my foot Pantin. It works for me.
If I ever need a 3:1 I just unclip the footloop and bungee, put them in my pocket, add a revolver to the bottom of the basic, clip it in and go.
The bent gate biner comes into its own again then as it captures the tail of the 3:1...otherwise it can sag out of reach!

Yeah I didn't realize "Bermy" was a women for a while. But you gave away the secret. lol It's all good. One thing I'm not lacking is a sense of humor.

On the HH2 it too came with Beeline but for this HTP 7/16" line it didn't work well at all. The Epicord was better but still not as good as others. Being new to this I question my views on this stuff but time will tell. Switching climbing lines would be a good thing either way.

I'll have to try your method of the second biner. Simple. I like simple. You may be able to relate..well to some of this;
Since my stride is rather short (while ascending) the room for adjustment on the knee ascender is very very small. If I make adjustments to the bridge length, the clip in point , or if the wind is blow more than 6 miles per hour from the west...it throws the knee ascender adjustments off.

One of the issues I have, that I know FOR SURE you don't have is if the knee ascender (HAAS) is clipped in close to me, like inside my bridge to the HH biner or anything in that area the top of the knee ascender hits me in the...well ya know... and I'm singing soprano all the way up the tree. So having a connection point for the knee ascender's bungee further out, like my connection to the HitchClimber pulley avoids this. However if I go with the Pinto pulley for tending I won't have this extra connection point. I'll have to look further into what your doing using the rope and equipment you use and see how I make out.

I have my first big "job" in about a month. I thought at this point that I would have all of this dialed in...but I don't. A little pressure here. I got to work this out...this and the pine pitch issue.
Thanks again for your input.

Chris

 

[DMc]

Chris, if you look at the picture I posted on my setup, you will see an adjustment buckle on my shoulder harness with a small hole in it. That is where I clip my haas. I don't like anything pulling down on the stuff that is going up.

As for adding a pulley or not just go with what works for you. The HH will tend just fine without one, but for what I like the added smoothness of the pulley puts the HH right up there with any of the other multisenders.

 

[soup-n-sandwich]

Yeah I see it. I really like this setup of yours. What is that strap? Is it specially made for this? I can see how this might work even better for the HAAS because it aligns the bungee over our leg rather than having it be centred on your body. I agree...the pulley isn't essential but it's very nice to have. Tim's solution works pretty well also. There is some flopping around but it works really well. I want to also try your method because it uses a bit less hardware, the alignment is good and seems to maybe be a bit more efficient.

So where does that strap come from? How/where does the strap connect in the back of you?
You don't use many wraps on the hitch cord. What is your weight?
Oh and what rope are you using for the climbing line?

Thanks man!
c

 

[Tim_B.]

I don't like anything pulling down on the stuff that is going up.

This was subtle and I almost missed it. I think DMc (Dave) is referring here to my suggestion of attaching a bungee to my Gibbs ascender. I understand what he's getting at here, because I once tried to substitute a stronger piece of bungee cord for my really thin, wimpy bungee that was wearing out. The stronger bungee was no good, as it provided so much resistance to being pulled up while my foot was in its fully down position, that it was really irritating. My thin, wimpy bungee stretches easily up to the top of my range of motion with my Gibbs style ascender, even if I don't lift my foot at all. The Gibbs doesn't feel like it's being held back at all. I was not anticipating this problem at all with the thicker, stronger bungee. Sometimes, less is more.

Also, I'd like to say to Chris that Dave is one of the most veteran climbers on this forum, with I think more than 40 years in the saddle, so what he says bears listening to. I really applaud Chris for being so aggressive and open minded in trying out all of the various suggestions people are throwing at him. And then providing astute feedback to the community on how well the various iterations are performing for him. I can't help but think that Chris is going to be improving as a climber at a fairly astonishing rate.

Tim

 

[soup-n-sandwich]

Thanks Tim very much for your compliments and Dave interpretations. I have noticed similar observations. You would think that the bungee pulling down on the tending HH would matter. Well it does...a little as long as you don't have a massive bungee cord on it. It matters less than one would think. I noticed this when connecting the bungee to my hitch climber pulley..which is the first time I had the opportunity to do this since up until this point I didn't own this gear to try it. I'm a perfectionist. I have this thing about optimize EVERYTHING. So I'm sure this will be no different.

I will say that I really do like Dave's setup too. I like how the bridge ring is connected directly to the HH biner and the Pinto looks like it was made for this exact purpose. It keeps the same alignment into the HH using the pulley or not. I really need to know what that chest harness is from...or where to get one.

I have to try both setups. Yours and Dave's. At first glance (the video) your configuration looks strange and also looks confusing and almost a bit "over engineered" but it's the what is happening in the video. For somebody just getting into this field it's hard to track what's going on. There are some extra biners hanging off other biners that are in use and near the end of the video the system actually flips around so the viewers view is almost backwards and I think that's why it confused me. Now that you explained it and I actually tried it..it's a different story. It has a few minor drawbacks but almost everything system does.
Of course it's all about personal tastes. At this point I can tell you that I would use your system before using the original configuration that I had with the HC pulley just five days ago. This I know for sure.

Now that I understand more of what works and how you guys are doing things it will help me better see some other ways of looking at this gear. The TreeMotion harness has a SRT rated ring on the rear and a low load loop that can be used for chest harness connections. Something that I'm not using right now. One this is for sure...my brain is not easy to please. I don't look for issues just to look for issues but I tend to find them and want to correct it. When something works for me I will likely always use that method and stick with it. I guess we shall see what the deal is.

I hope Dave gets back to me regarding the chest harness questions. I love the purpose built ring for the HAAS knee ascender. For the record I would have rather got the SAKA knee ascender from Richard M. I think it's a better design but it wasn't available when I bought my gear.

I saved all the pictures everybody posted to analyse all possibilities. Hopefully when I'm 100 ft in the air drilling, bolting and hoisting equipment up there I won't discover something that I vitally need to complete the job.

 

[soup-n-sandwich]

I noticed that the way most you run your hitch cord on the HH is the way it's stated in the HH manual...but some of you...actually Bermy, you set yours up in reverse. The Youtube videos for the HH are about half one way and half the other. The HH manual indicted to run the hitch cord on the spine side first but some folks do it on the rope side first.

Have any of you noticed a difference either way?

I was told that the spine side goes towards the climber...but I see some folks doing the exact opposite.

Any thoughts?

Just stirring the pot here!

-Soup (Chris)

 

[DMc]

Sorry, the shoulder harness I use is the Petzl Torse and the pulley is a Petzl fixe with the side plates pressed together so they firmly grip the bridge ring. I started with the original Haas and upgraded to the Velox. It has a much greater range of bungee travel.