Help in Estimate of Bid on a Cleanup Job?

[rfwoody]

Hello,

Thanks everyone for your ongoing help in the bid of removing the 2 Bradford Pears so far.

I'm posting another similar question, asking for help in bidding a strictly cleanup job -- listening to people, thought processes, etc. and trying to get a feel for things.

These pictures are before I hauled the first load away.



Silver Maple, approx 30" DBH, guessing 40' tall
5 to 6 loads.
45 minutes away from dump site.

I bid $250 on the job, and got it.

It is my first "real" tree type job.

Any comments, suggestions, criticism, etc. about the job or estimating/bidding would be appreciated! Thanks!

 

[lumberjack]

5 loads, 45 minutes from the dump, assuming 15 minutes to load and 15 minutes to unload is 2 hours per load invested, 10-12 hours for the job.... for $250.

Do you see a glaring problem with that (hint, not the optimistic loading/unloading times)?

 

[cory]

Brave customer.

 

[Altissimus]

Hehehe , last guys got the work and left a nice high stump

 

[Fiddler]

In my thoughts you did this basically for gas money..if that. Road time is machinery and operator time and should be charged accordingly.

 

[lumberjack]

I'd venture to say it's a tough bet making profit hauling tree debris in a pickup bed, especially if you want to make minimum wage on top of that profit.


If it was a short drive from my shop and I didn't have to rake, I would charge $500 to haul that debris... it would probably take 10-15 minutes to load... someone cut that debris into tiny pieces.

 

[SkwerI]

5 loads for $250 is $50 per load. How much work are you willing to do for $50 minus dump fee? And whether you dump it at the dump or at your own property, you still need to charge the same dump fee. Stuff dumped at your home will need to be dealt with at some point and that will be your time and money which needs to be accounted for.

I agree with Carl. You're working for gas money. If you want to work for gas money, deliver pizzas.

 

[woodworkingboy]

Woody, I just want to say that I like your thinking, over sixty and still wanting to work hard to make a few bucks. Praise for that.

 

[chris_girard]

I would go $150/load

 

[lumberjack]

Hauling debris in a pickup is a non starter. If I was working next door and had the room at the end of the job, I might pick it up for $250.


It being cut up all small like isn't endearing to me... usually I quote $700+/load for local tree debris, although I don't haul much for third parties (and the municipalities get a lower rate as they pay the disposal costs).


My embed-fu seems to be weak today:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xbgD66WNuk

 

[lumberjack]

Adding to the above, the market will pay a certain amount for a certain job. Time/experience will give you a grasp of what that number is. The same time and experience will also tell you if the job is worth you doing or not.


I understand people are in different positions, but just because a job is only worth X amount, doesn't mean the job is worth doing.

 

[sotc]

Time and materials for a clean up job.

 

[flushcut]

Can somebody post the Patrick Stewart "face palm" GIF for me.
I get starting out, at least I hope, but you are working too hard for your money.

 

[rfwoody]

THANKS!

lumberjack, cory, Altissimus, Fiddler, Skwerl2, woodworkingboy, chris_girard, sotc, flushcut

Thanks for all the real, hard numbers.
Thanks for all the "reality" comments.
Thanks for all the evaluation of the specific requirements and details of doing the job.
Thanks for ALL the comments, suggestions, rebukes, etc.!

All these comments are helping my plan come together... so it seems.
i.e.
1. Start out doing *something* ... don't be afraid of losing money to get the initial work and experience.
2. Gain real visceral experience by doing the job.
3. Evaluate the whole experience
4. Add in advice, comments, rebukes from guys like you and other resources about bidding, work methods, facts of reality, and anything else that bears on any of this.
5. Then try to fine tune and improve bidding, work methods, etc.
6. Then back to #1 and try to do better with jobs, bidding, methods, etc.

Please keep comments, suggestions, rebukes coming.
Thanks again.

 

[lumberjack]

Excellent post!


Where in Mississippi are you?

 

[rfwoody]

Thanks lumberjack!
Coldwater, MS ... about 30 miles south of Memphis off I-55

 

[lumberjack]

Nice, I'm in Columbus, MS.

 

[flushcut]

Good to read you can take criticism like a man! Now look at it this way clean up and hauling is the most time consuming aspect of tree work, it only take five minutes with a saw to make five hours worth of clean up. Figure out your hourly rate, truck payments, depreciation, expenses, return on investment, insurance, and so on.

 

[rfwoody]

...it only take five minutes with a saw to make five hours worth of clean up. Figure out your hourly rate, truck payments, depreciation, expenses, return on investment, insurance, and so on.

Thanks flushcut... haha, very true "...five minutes with a saw to make five hours worth of clean up..."

However the work with the saw is theoretically a "skilled" task.... whereas the cleanup is more an "unskilled" task.

I see the importance of establishing the hourly rate aspect of one's time and work.

Question: Should one break down the job into "skilled" and "unskilled" parts and charge more for the "skilled" parts?
What would be wrong with this strategy:
Figure the skilled parts at a MINIMUM set price (e.g. $100 to cut down a tree even if it took 5 minutes)
and a MAXIMUM price of an hourly rate (e.g. $50 an hour in case the 5 minute tree wound up taking 3 hours).

Thanks!

 

[lumberjack]

Skilled or unskilled, there's no point in working for free.

I have varying hourly rates depending on what I'm doing and what equipment I'm using. For my time, the hourly starts around $200/hr and can be several times that. If it's not worth $200/hr, it's not really worth my time, although I'll occasionally get a soft spot and do something that doesn't make business sense.


Jobs are worth what they're worth. How you do them determines your hourly rate. Your overhead determines your minimum hourly.


If you do the same work as everyone else, the same way as everyone else, you'll make the same money as everyone else.

 

[rfwoody]

Thanks Carl!

 

[Altissimus]

Well said Lumberjack

 

[rfwoody]

Just to bring the thread to a full conclusion... finally got truck back from shop and finally finished job. (including buddy of mine who helped with last load in his truck (to left).

 

[Bermy]

Well done, now do your sums and see if you made any money! Learning curve,now, on to the next one

 

[rfwoody]

Thanks Bermy.

Quick estimate from my job log/notes:

6 or 7 trips @ ~60 miles round trip @ ~4 hours each round trip, driving and loading/unloading)

... approximate because twice my truck got towed from job site or near job... and twice I drove out in my car (28 mpg) with chainsaw.

saying 28 total hours

Charged $190 .... originally was $250 but reduced by $50 after 2 weeks because it was taking so long and reduced another $10 because I over promised when I first gave the price... told her "I don't get paid until every last leaf is raked up" ... then, into the job I knocked off $10 to leave a leaf or two... but as it turns out I think I did get every last leaf... Live and Learn!

So say 300 miles at 15 miles/gal = 20 gallons @ $2.25/gal = $45 in gas
I'll say $5 for chainsaw gas, etc. (probably more like $1.00) = $50 ..... (not including wear and tear on truck, chainsaws, and other equipment.... but I get the tax deduction on this and mileage).

$190 - $50 = $140/28 hours = $5.00 / hour

I am probably overlooking some expenses, right? e.g. GL insurance @ ~100/month

However, even at $5 an hour, I would much rather be doing this (minus the truck being in the shop for 5 weeks) than working an inside job for minimum wage.