Free climbing

[Treeaddict]

Is there a certain distance from the ground that the ANSI z133 allows for free climbing?

I deadwooded and removed hangers from a beech that a 13 yo boy put a rope swing in. He just climbed up and tied it 3’ out on a limb. The swing is 25’ off the ground. I’m up in this thing alternating lanyards to stay tied in at all times (mostly). There were a few times when I was perched nice and tight where I was not clipped in when advancing my lanyard. Part of me felt irresponsible and another part was saying “you’ve been in trees without ropes for years when younger, a kid put a swing in higher than you are right now”.

Does it really just boil down to “the rules are the rules and you stay tied in at all times because those are the rules and that’s the way business, insurance, and the legal systems work. They follow the rules” or is it more of a “use common sense and know your limitations” How do you all see it and approach the easy and low climbs?

 

[SkwerI]

Tricky subject. I can't recommend you climb without being tied in. That would be stupid. That said, I look at climbing sort of like I look at driving a car. I try to obey all the rules, but some liberties are taken. And if I screw up and get in an accident then I can only blame myself.

 

[Treeaddict]

I know what you mean Brian. Sometimes it seems strange though. I’m my youth I’ve spent an untold amount of hours between 2 bradford pears, silver maple, and some type of conifer in our yard. Only injury was a scratched cornea- twice. That conifer was like walking up a ladder. A ladder that scratched up eyes! My dad had it removed after the second eye incident. I never fell out of those trees. Heck, I’d go in our Japanese maple with my kids before getting into real climbing. Didn’t think anything about tie ins.

I guess this is my brain trying to process why we do it differently now?

 

[Jomo]

Seems like I've read about two firm points of contact/leverage being sufficient for free climbing way back when.

The price of losing our prehensile tails?

Jomo

 

[lxskllr]

You're smarter now. It only takes one mistake to have a life altering/ending injury. Maybe you get startled by a raccoon or squirrel in the tree. Perhaps you didn't see that hornet nest before you started climbing. Maybe you're gripping a branch and leaning back, but you didn't notice the defect that caused it to snap when you weighted it. And on, and on... A basic setup short of 'full safety' is easy to deal with, and will most likely keep you in place, so it makes sense to use it.

That said, I intend on free climbing my pine to get where the hanger is. I'll use a rope to get in the tree, free climb to the hanger, then lanyard in to get out on the limb to get it down. Maybe I should tie in the whole time, but I don't think I will, and it'll probably be alright. If I stayed tied in, 'probably' would be 'almost definitely'.

 

[SeanKroll]

I like boring tree work. I stay tied in.

 

[Bermy]

I grew up scrambling around in big fig trees, and fell out a few times, never thought twice about it.
Once I free climbed up to the lower branches in a Baygrape, had just thrown my lanyard over a branch and clipped it, the next step I took the bark sloughed off under my foot and I fell into my harness. Small fall, about 5' up. Yep, could have been something broken.
When we had to put up with the gybes and taunts in Bermuda from the landscapers about using climbing gear and not just free climbing, and hanging on with one arm while flailing about with a chainsaw, a colleague of mine once said, right let's climb to the top of the tree and when we get there we'll let go with both hands and lean out. We never got any takers.

 

[flushcut]

Isn’t OSHA 6’ or more needs to be secured with fall arrest. I tie into crabapple prunes. See the fall isn’t the part that bothers me it’s the sudden stop that I am afraid of.

 

[ruel]

When working in Maine, tied in if more than 4 feet off the ground. I'll be at least lanyarded in on apple prunes.

You're learning right? Pretty new to climbing? Tie in 100%of the time. After a few years and getting more comfortable moving in trees, then you can reassess. The percieved bennies of free climbing disappear with one mishap. Low reward/ high cost failure makes the equation skew heavily to staying tied in.

 

[SeanKroll]

I don't tie-in for orchard trees.

 

[Burnham]

Think I'd better just stay out of this one .

The subject does come up in this thread...
At long last...US Forest Service Treeclimbing Guide revision is released | The Tree House (masterblasterhome.com)

 

[Burnham]

Good discussion here, too.

Don't have to be tied in?? | The Tree House (masterblasterhome.com)

 

[Nutball]

It seems to me like it is a lot easier move around if tied in, like having an extra arm at least. It is definitely a lot easier when toting gear up there like a chainsaw. If climbing is the goal, not reaching a specific part of the tree, and no need to carry other stuff, then I'm all for no tie in as long as it is an easy climb.

 

[Marc-Antoine]

When tied in, you have both hands and both feet free to do what ever you want, you can take some ridicoulous positions with ease to make the work done.
It's a great mental comfort too.
Asking you "what if?" Is a good teacher/motivator.
Beside the better training/gear in "pro" mode (than "child" mode) which tends to reduce the risk, the real issue is statistic. If a problem appears every 100 climbs for example, it will take a while in kid mode to see it, maybe not at all. But in pro mode, you can probably go through these 100 climbs many times a year. So, do you want to rely on a bet about it?
"Should be fine !" Yes, sure! Should, but ...

 

[Burnham]

Climbing free is a completely different thing than working aloft free...don't confuse the two.

 

[Mellow]

When I first started climbing, way back in 1978, it was SOP to free climb all the way up to your TIP.

 

[Treeaddict]

I completely understand and agree about the rope being a second appendage and that it can allow so much more versatility when moving through the tree or positioning to perform work.

Your comments, stories, and experiences really helped me work through this issue in my mind. Thank you. I am very grateful. Thank you for the links of past threads Burnham! You always seem to know where the bodies are buried 😁

I was thinking about free climbing as either safe or unsafe, good or bad, right or wrong. What I did in that beech a couple days ago (with 3 points of contact) was safe imo and I don’t feel like I’m on an island with that view. That being said, it would have been safER to have clipped in with my short lanyard before advancing my longer climbing lanyard.

The conclusion as it applies to my climbing journey is that I will stay tied in at all times. It won’t hurt anything and can only help to stack the odds of a favorable outcome.

 

[SeanKroll]

The better you get with a throw line, the less you will want to free climb.

A well-set and easily set throwline ađnd climbing rope is hard to walk past to free climb.


DdRT/ MRS would increase the desire.
Isolating a TIP and setting a ring-and- ring friction saver is a lot more work than pulling in a non- isolated rope and getting to work.

 

[SkwerI]

When I first started climbing, way back in 1978, it was SOP to free climb all the way up to your TIP.

3 points of contact at all times was the rule back then.

 

[Underwor]

In 67 at Davey Training in Bird Sanctuary in Kent, Ohio, we did not tie in until we reached the top. Saw my first lanyard in 83. How did I last for 51 years?

 

[Jomo]

By tying in before doin anything truly dynamic?

Being tied in has saved my azz a few times.

Not being tied in has saved me from getting bloodied up pruning caffra coral trees with their formidable spikes.

Depends on how far you are from a soft lawn on many small porcupine species.

Jomo