"converting" a climber

[Frans]

Monterey Pines get bark beetle so easily around here I bet they would suffer.

Interesting reply, Burnham.

May just go to show that it is valuable to objectively examine our practices instead of blindly following.

 

[Bermy]

Spikes, no spikes...I just did a day of coconut 'denutting' at a hotel...spikes all day, no access for a bucket. The palms have obviously been spiked many times before. The old spike areas were much harder than the surrounding tissue.

However...I did a coconut the week before with a bucket...there was a big hole in the trunk about 3' below the crown, the trunk is completely rotten inside almost the full diameter and 2' up and down...could possibly have been an entry point for a pathogen from a spike hole...

I'll spike casuarinas, invasive trees anyway, FULL of water...a few months later you can barely tell where the spikes hit.

When pruning anything else its a no no, many other species do not deal well with spike holes, it looks ugly, possible entry point for pathogens and unless its a straight up and down, spikes get in my way.

Use them when you need them....

 

[Frans]

Never seen a blue gum euc. yet which did not either sprout suckers from spur holes or simply shrug off the damage

 

[Bounce]

Spikes, no spikes...I just did a day of coconut 'denutting' at a hotel...spikes all day, no access for a bucket. The palms have obviously been spiked many times before. The old spike areas were much harder than the surrounding tissue.

However...I did a coconut the week before with a bucket...there was a big hole in the trunk about 3' below the crown, the trunk is completely rotten inside almost the full diameter and 2' up and down...could possibly have been an entry point for a pathogen from a spike hole...

I'll spike casuarinas, invasive trees anyway, FULL of water...a few months later you can barely tell where the spikes hit.

When pruning anything else its a no no, many other species do not deal well with spike holes, it looks ugly, possible entry point for pathogens and unless its a straight up and down, spikes get in my way.

Use them when you need them....

Technically, I think palm and coconut trees are not actually trees. They are more closely related to grass than to trees. As I understand it, the big difference is that their vascular tissue is distributed throughout the whole trunk instead of concentrated in a cambium layer just under the bark. This is why spur climbing palm trees is not supposed to be as damaging as on real trees. Or at least that's what I remember reading somewhere. Since I live in Washington State, I have never actually seen a palm tree except on tv before.

 

[Bermy]

Technically, I think palm and coconut trees are not actually trees. They are more closely related to grass than to trees. As I understand it, the big difference is that their vascular tissue is distributed throughout the whole trunk instead of concentrated in a cambium layer just under the bark. This is why spur climbing palm trees is not supposed to be as damaging as on real trees. Or at least that's what I remember reading somewhere. Since I live in Washington State, I have never actually seen a palm tree except on tv before.

You will notice I never called a coconut palm a tree, because they are not. They are monocots, and as you say more closely related to grasses.
However, even with the scattered distribution of their vascular bundles they are susceptible to pathogens, especially if your spike happens to hit a vascular bundle, you then open a potential direct route for infection. There is a wilt disease that affect palms here, and after hurricane stress we have seen many palms go ass over tip as the disease gets in via stress cracks...so spike holes are a potential problem, albeit much less than for dicot trees.

 

[klimbinfool]

Burnham, In those hundred year old trees are your reaching the cambium?

 

[Frans]

You will notice I never called a coconut palm a tree, because they are not. They are monocots, and as you say more closely related to grasses.

When describing what palms are to customers, sometimes I use the analogy of saying "Think of them as a bundle of fiber optic wires"

 

[Burnham]

Burnham, In those hundred year old trees are your reaching the cambium?

Yup. Remember, they were more like 60 years old when we started training on them. We've been punching holes in their cambium ever since about 1970. Young trees with relatively thin bark. Even now, I'm sure we're gaffing live cambium.

Doug fir bark doesn't get real platey and thick until the tree gets up nearer to 200 years. And even then, the higher you go, the thinner the bark. My Bashlins are mounted with tree spikes about 3 inches long. It takes a heck of a lot of bark to keep those out of the living tree.

Still, you won't seriously hurt a Doug with gaffs, imo. Cosmetically, sure, and even at the possible minor cost of future wood quality, but not to the tree's overall health or life expectancy.

 

[Bounce]

Sometimes I worry about the liability risk. I think back on all the trees I spur climbed before I ever knew it was a no-no, and can't help but wonder if one of them might break off in a wind storm someday at a point on the trunk that was weakened (however slightly) by decay caused by a gaff wound. Given the large # of trees I did this to, I fear the odds are against me. My only consolation is that I was working for others back then and hopefully can't be held personally liable.

 

[Burnham]

Don't anybody take what I'm saying about my opinion of the minimal consequences of spurring Douglas fir (Pseudotsuga menziesii) to mean I think spurring trees in general has little negative impact on tree health. I'm speaking to a narrowly defined situation.

 

[woodworkingboy]

Darn, Burnham, you had to go and make that post, just when we were organizing to go picket your house.

 

[Burnham]

 

[chucky]

And here I had my picket sign all made up ... "Tree killer! - burn um, burn um!"

 

[rumination]

 

[Frans]

Still, you won't seriously hurt a Doug with gaffs, imo. Cosmetically, sure, and even at the possible minor cost of future wood quality, but not to the tree's overall health or life expectancy.

Burnham, do you think that the doug. firs in your area get more water then say in my area?
I think overall health and vigor play a part in the tree's defense mechanism. Stressed trees are weaker.
Sounds simplistic I know, but the doug firs in my area are usually drought stressed.

 

[Burnham]

What's the average annual rainfall where you are, Frans?

Here we see from 45 to 120 inches (including melted snow), depending on landmass orientation and elevation. I would not consider drought stress to be an issue for the native tree species in my area.

 

[Blinky]

Here we see from 45 to 120 inches (including melted snow), depending on landmass orientation and elevation. I would not consider drought stress to be an issue for the native tree species in my area.

I guess not! that's as much as triple the Piedmont average. Kinda wet out there, eh?

 

[Burnham]

The Great Pacific Northwet .

 

[woodworkingboy]

Home of Burnham and the banana slugs.

 

[rumination]

Burnham and the Banana Slugs. Sounds like an interesting music group.

 

[squisher]

I've sawed a few coastal slugs in my day. Frigging yuck.

 

[woodworkingboy]

Pretty interesting little critters really, if you read up on them. They know how to survive. It also said that they get eaten by predators, but it didn't say which ones.

 

[squisher]

Chainsaw is top of the food chain in the bush.

 

[Frans]

I'll have to get back to you on your question Burnham. Live in Sonoma County, CA.
Don't really know how to research annual rainfalls of my area and compare to your area.

 

[Blinky]

I think banana slugs are super cool. First time I saw one it scared me it was so big.