Constantly have to tighten chain - chain itself the likely culprit?

[Robert P]

I have an Echo saw that runs great, has a moderate amount of use, has a typical side bolts & side adjustment screw setup - everything is tight and works as it's supposed to as far as I can tell. If I find I'm constantly having to tighten a chain even after sharpening after just a few minutes of not particularly demanding cutting is it likely because of the chain - maybe the metallurgy is sub-par, too soft? This particular one is a PowerCare chain from Home Depot.

Thanks and Happy New Year.

 

[flushcut]

Sub par chain stretching is my guess.

 

[lxskllr]

Check your sprocket for wear also. That can give you weird results where it tightens and loosens. I think spec is replace at 0.5mm wear. That isn't much, and I go longer, but I don't know the most you can get away with. Probably varies depending on the grooving you get.

 

[Burnham]

It's an Echo.

Oh...I said that in another thread too. My bad...

 

[Robert P]

It's an Echo.

Oh...I said that in another thread too. My bad...

Dunno, they seem to get consistently good reviews. So far I've never owned a Stihl or Husky but I see people favorably comparing Echo to them. Mine fires up on the first pull every time after going through the initial cold start process. Have you had negative experiences with Echo saws?

 

[lxskllr]

I love my echoes. I feel like I got what I paid for with Stihl, but echo gave me more for my money.

edit:
I'm talking pro saws here. I wouldn't get anything but echo if I were shopping the farm or homeowner category.

 

[SkwerI]

Do you lift up on the tip of the bar when adjusting it and while tightening the nuts? If you watch the chain while lifting up on the bar, you will see the amount of difference it makes. If you loosen the nuts and adjust the chain while the bar is hanging down on the studs, it will instantly loosen up on the first couple cuts due to the torque.

Rule of thumb is 'no sag, no drag'. But you MUST be lifting up on the bar tip when checking!

 

[Burnham]

Dunno, they seem to get consistently good reviews. So far I've never owned a Stihl or Husky but I see people favorably comparing Stihl to them. Mine fires up on the first pull every time after going through the initial cold start process. Have you had negative experiences with Echo saws?

No, but then I've never been tempted to buy one. I'm pretty indoctrinated to Stihl saws at this point in my life; and I have used and owned only pro models.

I'm just being a snob, and keeping my reputation as a curmudgeon intact .

 

[Altissimus]

Twice I've had to replace the adjustment bolt itself , couldn't tell it as broken except by the failure to hold tension until it was removed

 

[Mick!]

My new husky battery saws have chains like that, hard to get to the right tension, become loose easily.
I think they’re just cheapo chains.

 

[Robert P]

Do you lift up on the tip of the bar when adjusting it and while tightening the nuts? If you watch the chain while lifting up on the bar, you will see the amount of difference it makes. If you loosen the nuts and adjust the chain while the bar is hanging down on the studs, it will instantly loosen up on the first couple cuts due to the torque.

Rule of thumb is 'no sag, no drag'. But you MUST be lifting up on the bar tip when checking!

I tried it being conscious of this, can't say it made a really noticeable difference. I see the sprocket on the clutch drum does have a noticeable groove worn into it. Going to hunt for a new clutch drum locally or go online if I can't find one and see if it makes a difference though it's not obvious why it would make a difference.

 

[Trains]

chain rides in the groove and causes the chain to become loose, you tighten it, chain rides out of the groove, all tensioned ok, then it goes back in the groove, chain loose again.

very typical of worn drive sprocket/ drum of chain tension going out of adjustment, people often over tighten the bar nuts and destroy the tensioner in the process thinking thats the problem.

 

[Nutball]

Is it a 490? Cheap chains like Oregon stretch often, couple that with extra stretch points on a .325 chain vs a 3/8, or the added torque of a small sprocket and the high low end torque porting of Echos, and you can get a lot of chain stretch. Also if the chain is too aggressive or dull can both cause a lot of engine load (for dull chains by leaning on the saw too hard) which causes higher torque on the chain for longer. Also the constant high rpm from running a dull chain if you don't lean on it too hard can stretch it.

 

[Robert P]

I would think the clutch drum would be a frequent replacement item but none of the local Echo dealers had it. You can get chains and bars but not the clutch drum. Ordered from a parts place.

 

[CurSedVoyce]

Crazy. Yeah that needs to be as common a part as the bar. Needle bearings as well.

 

[lxskllr]

The problem I think is I've never seen a real echo sawshop. They sell saws, and they may work on saws, but there's never any stock. They do what you'd do. Get the saw, find the problem, order parts.

 

[Marc-Antoine]

I see an other problem with a grooved sprocket. Due to the wear, the path where the chain really rides on the sprocket has an actual diameter smaller than the nominal defined by the pitch. So, each time a driving tooth enters then exits the sprocket, the chain has to contract and expand respectively in order to matches the "worn pitch". If the chain is worn too (likely), its own pitch is longer than the nominal. A shorter pitch meeting a longer pitch increases even more the phenomenon.
First, the chain rides loose on the sprocket between the entrance and the exit, i guess leading to a lot of jerking and more wear.
Second, the chain's rivets are choc loaded at each turn, not by much, but these "pings" remove a tiny bit of metal from the matching surfaces rivets/links, and you bet it, increasing the wear.

 

[Nutball]

People still get them to run well enough until the drive links wear a groove all the way through each tooth.

 

[Robert P]

Put a brand-new Echo clutch drum and needle bearing set on - not noticing any difference in the loosening issue.

Could the sharpening of the blade be an issue? I've been sharpening at 20 degrees because I saw somewhere that's what chains should be sharpened at, now I'm seeing videos where they say 30 degrees.

Or is it more likely the Home Depot chains are the problem?

Also - is there any such thing as lubricating the sprocket to lengthen the life or does the contact between the chain and the sprocket need to be dry? I haven't seen a video where lubricating the sprocket is mentioned.

 

[lxskllr]

Filing angle doesn't matter. You can use anything. It only affects how well it cuts, and how durable the cutting corner is.

You don't need lubrication aside from what the chain oil provides.

Before blaming the chain(it's still a good candidate), make sure your oiler's working, and getting oil to the bar. Bar should be cleaned after every cutting session, or any time it has to come off since it's convenient. Scrape the groove, and pick the crud out of the hole. If your oiler is adjustable, boost it to ~75% of max if not already there. As a rough guideline, you should have ¼ tank of oil left after emptying the fuel tank.

Finally, try a different chain. I use Stihl almost exclusively. It's simply better. If you want to save some money, bailey's WoodlandPro(Carlton) is good chain at a nice price. Oregon's fine also, but not my preference.

 

[Kaveman]

As has been posted previously, I still say the problem is with the crappy temper in your cheapo chain. I bet you put a good stihl chain on there, and your problem will dissappear like a fart in the wind.

 

[Nutball]

I've had Oregon chains loosen every use. I've also had some B/C combos tighten when run, and others loosen when run. It probably has to do with the thermal expansion of the particular bar and chain. Just be sure to loosen the chain when you put the saw away if you tightened it while hot, because it can shrink and put a lot of stress on the shaft and bearings and seals.

 

[Robert P]

Filing angle doesn't matter. You can use anything. It only affects how well it cuts, and how durable the cutting corner is.

You don't need lubrication aside from what the chain oil provides.

Before blaming the chain(it's still a good candidate), make sure your oiler's working, and getting oil to the bar. Bar should be cleaned after every cutting session, or any time it has to come off since it's convenient. Scrape the groove, and pick the crud out of the hole. If your oiler is adjustable, boost it to ~75% of max if not already there. As a rough guideline, you should have ¼ tank of oil left after emptying the fuel tank.

Finally, try a different chain. I use Stihl almost exclusively. It's simply better. If you want to save some money, bailey's WoodlandPro(Carlton) is good chain at a nice price. Oregon's fine also, but not my preference.

This particular model doesn't have adjustable oil flow but running it without a bar it comes out of the oil delivery hole at what seems like a decent rate and the chain slings oil against a flat surface so I sense it's getting adequate lubrication.

I'll go to the local Stihl dealer and pick up a couple of chains and see if that makes a difference.