Bid calculations

  • Thread starter Thread starter emr
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Just figure it manually, and bid it, tracking hours. See what your manual-hourly prediction turns into for loader-assisted hours. Divide it out. See how that seems to convert.

Something working in your favor is a regular, invested, same-skills (not in-training) work force.
 
I start with an hourly or half day or day rate in my head (never sharing that with the client), then if it's awesome work that our climbers will love (deadwooding a deodar cedar that hasn't been pruned in a decade!) then I'll discount the price a little (15%?) to book a sweet job- then if there's hazards then the price gets bumped up, if it's crap work we don't want (palms, bamboo, vines) it gets bumped more, and if it's specialty work that very few people can compete with (airspade work, trunk injections, cabling/propping/bracing) then the price get bumped even higher.

There's more to it of course, but that's the basic gist!


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I gave up pricing hourly long ago. I try to price fairly based on the perceived value in the eyes of the customer. I also love to give a price range whenever appropriate, like saying $450—525. That can really help. I mean, it is called an estimate after all. Tons of other trades work as estimate rather than firm quote. I don't see why we can't do it.
I was a subcontractor for years and charged hourly for that. I found that the better and faster I got, the less I made. If I got an 8hr job done in 6 hr, chances were, we would just bugger off and take a shorter day, there isnt always a little 1 or 2 hour job waiting on the books. So for that I usually have a day rate, but thats just me and my climbing gear.
 
They want a firm price 99.9% of the time. When you talk hourly rates it always sounds high, the clients don't know how long it takes to do xyz, often it takes way less time than they could imagine.
 
I call it an estimate because it is to my advantage to do so. I'm not talking about removals here guys, I should have said that. I'm talking about trimming jobs where the goals are subjective, or even worse, those ones where you just know that this is the kind of customer who will be watching every single cut you make. On those kinds of quotes, I wouldn't dream of giving a firm price. 

As far as customers wanting a firm price, that is really just your perception. I rarely have an issue with customers over this. Try it sometime, you might be surprised. I'm not giving a range of hundreds of dollars. It's a small range where both ends seem reasonable. 

And don't think that I am quoting a range and then charging them on the higher end of it.  Most of the time I end up charging them right in the middle, which makes me look fair, and a lot of times I charge them the lowest price of the range, and they usually feel like they got a discount. I reserve the right to charge the higher end of my quote when the customer ends up being overbearing or rude or worse.

Another thing that I try to do is, when I get a sense that the customer is just shopping around for the lowest price, I will try hard to point out other things around the yard that should really be done also, and sell them on that additional work, even if its quite small. That way the quote from me is different from all the other quotes that they get, i.e. they are not comparing apples to apples. I find this is a great way to differentiate myself from the other companies and sell on quality and expertise rather than just on price. 

And as far as there being 'no variables in our job that can't be foreseen ',  I honestly feel like I don't always spend enough time on site during a quote to ever be able to make that statement. A larger tree in the city might require going into several backyards to see it from every angle and take it all in. I dont usually have the time to do that. 

Anyone ever hit a chunk of embedded steel 18 ft up the trunk of a tree? Or a thick T-post right in the base of a stump? How about an old concrete cavity-fill that couldn't  be seen from the ground? Or a small hornets nest that got missed during the quote? 
 
Your bid shouldn't be subjective. If you write down "prune Tree in back yard" and i show up to bid next I'm going to ask the client what that means. Are they cutting one branch off? Be specific so you and your customer can both look at the bid spec when you're done and know the job has been completed
 
Pruning jobs are almost always subjective. I can write a quote for a large, overgrown apple tree, "thin 15%, reduce 6-8 ft, raise canopy 2 ft." If I give those instructions to 10 different climbers, I will get 10 different end results. As I say, this concept is even more applicable when the customer stands there watching you work. They will invariably say things like "what about that one?" or "can you get that one as well while you're there?".
About the only trimming scenario that is entirely without some amount of ambiguity would be things like "remove largest leader going towards gazebo", or "remove all deadwood over 1" diameter."

You shouldn't quote a price range all the time, but there are definitely times when it makes sense.
 
I've never tried giving a pricing range, to each their own no doubt though! I like specific goals and prices, maybe I'm just too rigid and inflexible.:|:
 
TreeMuggs said:
Pruning jobs are almost always subjective. I can write a quote for a large, overgrown apple tree, "thin 15%, reduce 6-8 ft, raise canopy 2 ft." If I give those instructions to 10 different climbers, I will get 10 different end results. As I say, this concept is even more applicable when the customer stands there watching you work. They will invariably say things like "what about that one?" or "can you get that one as well while you're there?".
About the only trimming scenario that is entirely without some amount of ambiguity would be things like "remove largest leader going towards gazebo", or "remove all deadwood over 1" diameter."

You shouldn't quote a price range all the time, but there are definitely times when it makes sense.
Click to expand...

That's a big consideration, who's doing the work. In our firm we have 2 climbers who are also the 2 salesmen:D We take the time to explain in detail what will happen and then do it, I feel like there is rarely ambiguity to a high enough level to create complications.
 
99 Percent of the time a well written bid will do. If I get the feeling the client will be a pain or can't decide how it will look, I tell them I can't give a hard quote but can do it hourly and they can point and shoot all they want. Actually gets the job done quite efficiently :D
 
Willie, do you show at all your bids or send your crew with a work order more often?
 
Oh, work orders go out for the crew, foreman has access to Jobber for bidding or to see the price so he gets an idea of time factored. Sometimes that is good to know if the job is a little confusing and I can't swing by or not answering the phone at the moment
 
Not exactly, I'm wondering if you go with your crew to each job or just send them off with a work order to get er done?

Does the crew know the price is an interesting topic as well though.

Edit, you answered while I was typing :)
 
We usually talk about jobs for the day in the morning or the day before. If a job is spread out or complex I will try to walk through with them. Sometimes we have a multi day job, sometimes multi job days so not always possible. Crew has access to all jobs on the calendar so they can often look on google and see the next days tree online if they want. Booked a month right now, they can look at everything there. I often pull up aerial or street view in the morning a point things out. Plus, they can always call, if I don't answer I always call back. Just don't leave me a v mail saying "call me" :X
 
Sounds about like most places I worked. The best foreman job I had the boss was extremely detail oriented, maybe too much. Explaining to me at 7am while looking at Google maps "come down the street from the east, back the truck up here, send Ivan in the back with these tools for this tree, you and Dan get in this tree in front, etc etc." :|: "okay boss"
 
I always felt that way but every company I worked at was open with the price, from day one I thought, damn that's a lot of money:O

As a sub I never knew the price.
 
Haha Levi, I do occasionally say things like that but am not a micro manager. Mostly suggestions but sometimes I say do this, this way.
 
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