BC Cutters - opinions required.

[Buzz]

Hi guys, the forestry industry in the UK has one of the worst fatality counts of all industries in the country.

Mainly motor manual felling works and machinery operators on short wood systems in remote spots.

The industry has been asked to address this itself before expensive fines and stringent legislation is forced on us. A new group has been set up, 'Forest Industry Safety Accord' which is based on:

http://www.bcforestsafe.org/index.html

I wondered if anyone had any experience of what has been set up in BC, both positive and negative points.

Cheers, Matt.

 

[MasterBlaster]

Hi guys, the forestry industry in the UK has one of the worst fatality counts of all industries

I'm pretty sure it's the same here, too. That, or commercial fishing.

 

[Buzz]

I wonder if Burnham knows anything about it?

 

[Burnham]

Matt, I don't know anything about the BC system. I think I have the current Oregon OSHA standards for logging operations on a CD...I'll look into it and if it seems like there might be something there for you to resource, I'll post it.

Some of the Canada members might have some input.

 

[Paul B]

Matt, the page and rules you posted are exactly the reason a I was involved in creating an arborist apprentice program, to differentiate urban tree workers from forestry where they have been lumped. It was a 'create the system or we will create it for you' situation from workers comp. The arborist program has all its own training etc except the falling and bucking training was forced to be equal to the forestry system , the catch is the arborist will be trained to the same standard yet will hold a certification that will not be equal to the bc fallers and buckers ticket. I think in the fine print the arboist gets an endorsement to do such activities in the urban setting yet does not hold the formal ticket which allows the activities in a logging situation. Trust me its been 4 years + in the build of this system and the paperwork is immense. I didnt deal directly with Workers comp but the phrase we kept hearing from the people that did was 'they keep moving the dartboard', as in we would provide what they asked for then at the next meeting they would dismiss it and ask for something else.

The apprentice link: http://www.horteducationbc.com/apprentice-info/arboriculture-apprenticeship-program

The faller and bucker textbook: http://faculty.forestry.ubc.ca/bendickson/FOPRLibrary/Library/Safe Work/WCB fallers_buckers.pdf

More info: http://www2.worksafebc.com/portals/forestry/FallingAndBucking.asp

For other info on the apprentice program you could contact Anne Kadwell at Hort Education BC, she is the industry liason for the program. http://www.horteducationbc.com/about-us/board-staff I know most of the folks on the list if you want to name drop (use my real name of course not my nickname here lol).

 

[GASoline71]

Props Paully!

Also... Squisher (the Saquatch lover) worked in the BC bush for a while... he might be able to chime in on the loggin' side of it as well.

Gary

 

[Paul B]

I believe his uncle had the fallers ticket, Squishie's time in the bush was prior to that program

 

[GASoline71]

Gary

 

[Burnham]

Matt, here's the whole Division 7 Oregon OSHA rule governing Forest Activities. I posted the subdivision P that covers tree climbing in a thread I started a few days ago, but this is the whole enchilada. Pretty comprehensive, maybe it can help y'all some.

Oops, the whole pdf file is too large to upload to the site. 4.38 MB; 20 seperate files, so a bit of a bother to upload individually. If you'd like me to email it to you, drop me a PM with an email address and I'd be happy to. If that won't work and you still want to see it, I'll slog through the process...but you'll owe me .

 

[Burnham]

Here's the table of contents, to give you an idea of the scope.

OREGON OCCUPATIONAL
SAFETY AND HEALTH STANDARDS
Oregon Administrative Rules, Chapter 437
DIVISION 7
FOREST ACTIVITIES
Oregon Occupational Safety and Health Division (OR-OSHA)
Department of Consumer and Business Services
Salem, Oregon 97301-3882
AO 2-2010
The Oregon Department of Consumer and Business Services adopted these rules pursuant to ORS 654.025(2).
The Secretary of State Designated OAR Chapter 437 as the “Oregon Occupational Safety and Health Code.” Six general
subject areas within this code are designated as “Divisions.”
• Division 1 General Administrative Rules
• Division 2 General Occupational Safety and Health Rules
• Division 3 Construction
• Division 4 Agriculture
• Division 5 Maritime Activities
• Division 7 Forest Activities
• Oregon Revised Statutes (ORS) 654 The Oregon Safe Employment Act (OSEAct)
Oregon-initiated rules in this division of the Oregon Occupational Safety and Health Code are numbered in a uniform
system developed by the Secretary of State. This system does not number the rules in sequence (001, 002, 003, etc.).
Omitted numbers may be assigned to new rules at the time of their adoption.
Oregon-initiated rules are arranged in the following Basic Codification Structure adopted by the Secretary of State for
Oregon Administrative Rules (OAR):
Chapter Division Rule Section Subsection Paragraphs
437 007 0055 (1) (a) (A)(i)(I)
To obtain an order form or copies of these codes, address:
Department of Consumer & Business Services
Oregon Occupational Safety & Health Division (OR-OSHA)
350 Winter St. NE, Room 430
Salem, OR 97301-3882
Or call the OR-OSHA Resource Library at 503-378-3272
The rules referenced in this division are available for viewing in the Office of the Secretary of State, Administrative
Rules and Office Document Section, Oregon State Archives Building, Salem, Oregon 97310, or the Central Office,
Oregon Occupational Safety and Health Division of the Department of Consumer and Business Services, Room 430,
350 Winter St. NE Salem, OR 97301-3882. Please visit our web site at: www.orosha.org
Oregon Administrative Rules
Oregon Occupational Safety
and Health Division FOREST ACTIVITIES
DIVISION 7 1 TABLE OF CONTENTS
TABLE OF CONTENTS
Subdivision A – General Requirements and Definitions
437-007-0001 Authority of Rules ............................................................................. A-1
437-007-0002 Purpose of Rules .............................................................................. A-1
437-007-0003 Scope of Rules ................................................................................. A-1
437-007-0004 Applicability of Rules ......................................................................... A-1
437-007-0010 Worker Protection Standard ............................................................. A-2
437-007-0025 Definitions ......................................................................................... A-3
Subdivision B – Safety and Health Program
437-007-0100 Safety and Health Program .............................................................. B-1
437-007-0105 Management Commitment ............................................................... B-1
437-007-0110 Supervisory Responsibilities ............................................................. B-1
437-007-0125 Accident Investigation ....................................................................... B-3
437-007-0130 Employee Involvement ..................................................................... B-3
437-007-0135 Hazard Identification and Control ..................................................... B-4
437-007-0140 Training ............................................................................................. B-5
437-007-0145 Annual Program Evaluation .............................................................. B-6
437-001-0700(21) Reporting Fatalities and Hospitalization to Oregon OSHA ............... B-7
437-001-0053 Preserving Physical Evidence at the Scene of an Accident ............. B-8
Subdivision C – Planning, First Aid and Work Conditions
437-007-0200 Site Planning and Implementation .................................................... C-1
437-007-0205 Hazard Identification ......................................................................... C-1
437-007-0210 Checking System .............................................................................. C-2
437-007-0215 Working Alone .................................................................................. C-3
437-007-0220 Medical Services and First Aid ......................................................... C-4
437-007-0225 Working Near Unstable Objects and Danger Trees ......................... C-7
437-007-0230 Power Lines Safeguards ................................................................... C-8
437-007-0235 Weather Conditions .......................................................................... C-9
437-007-0240 Night Logging .................................................................................... C-9
437-007-0245 Field Sanitation for Reforestation Activities ...................................... C-9
FOREST ACTIVITIES Oregon Administrative Rules
Oregon Occupational Safety
and Health Division
TABLE OF CONTENTS 2 DIVISION 7
Subdivision D – Personal Protective Equipment and Programs
437-007-0300 General Requirements ..................................................................... D-1
437-007-0305 Head Protection ................................................................................ D-1
437-007-0310 High-Visibility Color .......................................................................... D-2
437-007-0315 Eye and Face Protection .................................................................. D-2
437-007-0320 Hand Protection ................................................................................ D-2
437-007-0325 Leg Protection .................................................................................. D-2
437-007-0330 Foot Protection ................................................................................. D-3
437-007-0335 Hearing Protection ............................................................................ D-3
437-007-0340 Personal Floatation Devices ............................................................. D-4
437-007-0345 Respiratory Protection ...................................................................... D-4
437-007-0350 Respiratory Protection When Machines are Operated ..................... D-5
Subdivision E – Tools, Fire Extinguishers and Explosives
437-007-0400 Hand and Portable Power-Driven Tools ........................................... E-1
437-007-0405 Chain Saws ...................................................................................... E-2
437-007-0410 Fire Extinguishers ............................................................................. E-4
437-007-0415 Explosives and Blasting Agents ....................................................... E-5
Subdivision F – Roads, Flagging, Vehicles and Flammables
437-007-0500 Roads ............................................................................................... F-1
437-007-0505 Bridges ............................................................................................. F-2
437-007-0510 Flagging ........................................................................................... F-2
437-007-0515 Signs ................................................................................................. F-3
437-007-0520 Vehicle General Requirements ......................................................... F-5
437-007-0525 Vehicle Warning Devices .................................................................. F-5
437-007-0530 Vehicle Windshields, Windows and Mirrors ...................................... F-5
437-007-0535 Vehicle Passenger Compartments ................................................... F-6
437-007-0540 Vehicle Brakes .................................................................................. F-6
437-007-0545 Vehicle Exhaust Systems ................................................................. F-7
437-007-0550 Vehicle Guards and Controls ............................................................ F-7
437-007-0555 Vehicle Safety Chains ...................................................................... F-8
437-007-0560 Vehicle Seat Belts ............................................................................ F-8
437-007-0565 Vehicle Inspection, Maintenance and Repair ................................... F-9
437-007-0570 Vehicle Operation ............................................................................. F-9
437-007-0575 Transportation of Personnel ........................................................... F-10
437-007-0580 Flammable and Combustible Liquids ............................................. F-10
Oregon Administrative Rules
Oregon Occupational Safety
and Health Division FOREST ACTIVITIES
DIVISION 7 3 TABLE OF CONTENTS
Subdivision G – Rigging and Rigging Practices
437-007-0600 Inspection and General Requirements for Rigging ........................... G-1
437-007-0605 Out-of-Service Requirements for Wire Rope .................................... G-1
437-007-0610 Line Cutting and Splicing .................................................................. G-2
437-007-0615 Pressed Eyes and End Fittings ........................................................ G-4
437-007-0620 Cable Clamps ................................................................................... G-4
437-007-0625 Mollies .............................................................................................. G-5
437-007-0630 Connectors ....................................................................................... G-6
437-007-0635 Shackles ........................................................................................... G-6
437-007-0640 Metal Spar Guyline Safety Straps .................................................. G-10
437-007-0645 Chokers and Straps ........................................................................ G-11
437-007-0650 Guylines - General Requirements .................................................. G-13
437-007-0655 Guylines - Tail Tree Guying ............................................................ G-14
437-007-0660 Intermediate Support Trees ............................................................ G-15
437-007-0665 Anchoring ....................................................................................... G-18
437-007-0670 Spiking and Releasing Spiked Guylines or Skylines ...................... G-22
437-007-0675 Selecting, Preparing and Rigging Trees ......................................... G-23
437-007-0680 Blocks and Hanging Blocks ............................................................ G-24
437-007-0690 Metal Towers .................................................................................. G-25
Subdivision H – Machines Used In Forest Activities
437-007-0700 General Work Practices .................................................................... H-1
437-007-0705 General Machine Operator Requirements ........................................ H-1
437-007-0710 General Machine Requirements ....................................................... H-3
437-007-0715 Attaching and Spooling Line (wire or synthetic rope) ....................... H-4
437-007-0720 Fairleads ........................................................................................... H-6
437-007-0725 Securing Machines ........................................................................... H-6
437-007-0730 Loading Machines ............................................................................ H-7
437-007-0735 Chippers ........................................................................................... H-7
437-007-0740 Machine Exhaust Systems ............................................................... H-7
437-007-0745 Windows and Windshields on Machines .......................................... H-8
437-007-0750 Drum Brakes ..................................................................................... H-8
437-007-0755 Machine Travel Brakes ..................................................................... H-8
437-007-0760 Outriggers ......................................................................................... H-9
437-007-0765 Hauling or Moving Machines ............................................................ H-9
437-007-0770 Protective Structures for Operators, General Requirements .......... H-10
437-007-0775 Protective Structures for Operators, Machines Manufactured
On Or After July 1, 2004 ............................................................. H-13
437-007-0780 Protective Structures for Operators, Machines Used On
Or After July 1, 2014 .................................................................... H-17
FOREST ACTIVITIES Oregon Administrative Rules
Oregon Occupational Safety
and Health Division
TABLE OF CONTENTS 4 DIVISION 7
Subdivision I – Cutting Trees, Pre-Commercial Thinning and Slashing
437-007-0800 General Requirements ....................................................................... I-1
437-007-0805 Mechanical Falling .............................................................................. I-3
437-007-0810 Manual Falling .................................................................................... I-4
437-007-0815 Wedges .............................................................................................. I-7
437-007-0820 Bucking Trees/Logs ............................................................................ I-7
437-007-0825 Tree Jacking ....................................................................................... I-8
437-007-0830 Tree Pulling ........................................................................................ I-9
Subdivision J – Yarding, Processing, Signaling and Communications
437-007-0900 General Landing Work Practices ....................................................... J-1
437-007-0905 Landings ............................................................................................ J-2
437-007-0910 Landing Logs ..................................................................................... J-3
437-007-0915 Log Decks .......................................................................................... J-4
437-007-0920 General Cable Yarding and Ground Skidding Work Practice ............ J-4
437-007-0925 Cable Yarding Work Practices ........................................................... J-5
437-007-0927 Working Near Standing Tree Anchors, and Tail/Intermediate
Support Trees ............................................................................... J-6
437-007-0930 Grapple Yarding ................................................................................ J-7
437-007-0935 Operation of Ground Skidding Machines and Vehicles ..................... J-8
437-007-0940 Signaling and Communications ......................................................... J-9
437-007-0945 Electrical Signal Systems ................................................................ J-10
437-007-0950 Voice Communication on Combined Signal/Voice Transmitters ..... J-11
Subdivision K – Loading and Transportation of Logs/Wood Fiber
437-007-1000 General Requirements ..................................................................... K-1
437-007-1005 Loading ............................................................................................. K-1
437-007-1010 Securing Logs for Transport ............................................................. K-3
437-007-1015 Binders and Wrappers ...................................................................... K-4
437-007-1020 Log Truck General Requirements .................................................... K-6
437-007-1025 Log Truck Safety Chains or Cables .................................................. K-7
437-007-1030 Log Truck and Trailer Hitches (Couplings) ....................................... K-8
437-007-1035 Log Truck and Trailer Brakes ........................................................... K-8
437-007-1040 Log Truck Trailer Reaches and Drawbars ........................................ K-9
437-007-1045 Log Truck Trailers ............................................................................. K-9
437-007-1050 Log Truck and Trailer Bunks and Stakes ....................................... K-10
437-007-1055 Log Truck and Trailer Bunk Chains and Cables ............................. K-11
437-007-1060 Additional Requirements for Log Trucks Equipped
With Self-Loaders ...................................................................... K-12
Oregon Administrative Rules
Oregon Occupational Safety
and Health Division FOREST ACTIVITIES
DIVISION 7 5 TABLE OF CONTENTS
Subdivision L – Log Dumps, Ponds and Yards
437-007-1100 General Work Practices .................................................................... L-1
437-007-1105 General Requirements for Log and Wood Fiber Unloading,
Handling and Storage Areas ........................................................ L-2
437-007-1110 Wrappers Removal General ............................................................. L-3
437-007-1115 Barriers For Securing Log Loads ...................................................... L-3
437-007-1120 Removing Wrappers From Barrier Secured Loads ........................... L-4
437-007-1125 Removing Wrappers From Machine Secured Loads ........................ L-4
437-007-1130 Removing Center Wrappers From Unsecured Loads ....................... L-5
437-007-1135 Unloading Logs ................................................................................. L-5
437-007-1140 Split Loads ........................................................................................ L-5
437-007-1145 Loading or Unloading Trailers ........................................................... L-6
437-007-1150 Trailer Hoists ..................................................................................... L-6
437-007-1155 Dry Land Log and Fiber Handling and Processing ........................... L-8
437-007-1160 Water Dumps, Log Ponds and Booms ............................................. L-9
437-007-1165 Boats ............................................................................................... L-11
Subdivision M – Aircraft Used In Forest Activities
437-007-1200 Helicopter Operation ........................................................................ M-1
437-007-1205 Aircraft Refueling/Maintenance Area ............................................... M-3
Subdivision N – Wildland Fire Suppression and Prescribed Fire
437-007-1300 Purpose of Rules .............................................................................. N-1
437-007-1303 Application of Rules .......................................................................... N-1
437-007-1305 General Requirements ..................................................................... N-2
437-007-1310 Personnel Assignments .................................................................... N-3
437-007-1315 Single Personnel Assignments ......................................................... N-3
437-007-1320 Personal Protective Equipment ........................................................ N-4
437-007-1325 Training ............................................................................................. N-5
437-007-1330 Equipment, Vehicles, and Machines, General Requirements .......... N-7
437-007-1335 Vehicle Operation ............................................................................. N-7
437-007-1340 Machine Operation ........................................................................... N-8
437-007-1345 Helicopter Operations ....................................................................... N-9
Subdivision O – Signaling Systems
437-007-1400 Jerk Wire Whistle System ................................................................. O-1
437-007-1405 Radio Signal Systems ....................................................................... O-1
FOREST ACTIVITIES Oregon Administrative Rules
Oregon Occupational Safety
and Health Division
TABLE OF CONTENTS 6 DIVISION 7
Subdivision P – Tree Climbing
437-007-1500 Tree Climbing General Requirements .............................................. P-1
437-007-1505 Climbing Equipment General Requirements .................................... P-1
437-007-1510 Climbing Procedures General Requirements ................................... P-2
437-007-1515 Rigging Trees for Cable Logging Systems ....................................... P-3
437-007-1520 Four Inch Tie-In Systems ................................................................. P-3
437-007-1525 Belayed (Snubbing) Climbing System .............................................. P-4
437-007-1530 Three Point Climbing System ........................................................... P-4
437-007-1535 Storage and Transportation of Climbing Equipment General ........... P-5
Appendices
7-A Standard Yarding System Whistle Signals
7-B Double Tree Intermediate Support System
7-C Basic Wildland Fire Safety Training
7-D Hoisting Personnel Up Metal Spars
7-E Rigging Wooden Spar Trees
7-F Radio Permits and Radio Signal Permit Area Map
7-G Respirator Medical Evaluation Questionnaire
7-H A-Frames and V-Leads
7-I Guyline Positioning
7-J Standard Hand Signals
7-K Forest Activities Tree Climbing

 

[Burnham]

I found a better way...here's the link to the OR OSHA website, to the whole Division 7, Forest Activities rules...you can download it from there.

http://www.cbs.state.or.us/external/osha/pdf/rules/division_7/div_7.pdf

 

[Buzz]

Paul, Burnham...

Thanks for that guys that's great. The problem is we have fairly robust procedure in terms of training and certification BUT the fatalities still occur.

The main problem being attitudes and the fact that someone can do a course and be in the woods or on a machine with little or no experience. Those on the ground want to push for a apprentice type scheme where a log book is issued and hours logged to prove competence. It's would be audited and administered primarily by employers.

We need to change attitudes at the bottom, this new group will look to improve accident and near miss rates throughout the forestry industry before the government starts charging us for investigations and non-conformance.

The key with all these things is getting a healthy percentage on board to push forward!

 

[Burnham]

I understand well your issues, Matt.

There is one thing that I think frequently sets the US Forest Service tree climbing program apart from most other training/certification programs is the requirement for attendance to a full-on training course to receive recertification every 3 years. A robust trainer cadre has to do the same, under evaluating facilitators, who also must do the same (albeit, this last tends to be a situation where one hand washes the other, but a small and highly motivated corps generates strong internal pressure to hit the highest standard we can).

Maybe that facet could help towards your goals?

 

[sierratree]

Well, I kind of hate using this term because it's kind of a cliche, but makes some sense; one factor to recurring accidents could be the attitude of the "safety culture", mind set, or paradygm: "It's been this way, it still is this way, and it will be this way in the future." Alot of corporations and large organizations seem to fall into this attitude. So even though the folks at the bottom, who do the work, feel like things need to change, the message needs to also begin at the top of the ladder and get all the way to the bottom. But often the guy at the top has no operational experience with what goes on at the ground level, so remedies are punative, rather than constructive. IMHO.

 

[HolmenTree]

QUOTE=Buzz;558834]Hi guys, the forestry industry in the UK has one of the worst fatality counts of all industries in the country.
Mainly motor manual felling works and machinery operators on short wood systems in remote spots.
The industry has been asked to address this itself before expensive fines and stringent legislation is forced on us. A new group has been set up, 'Forest Industry Safety Accord' which is based on:
http://www.bcforestsafe.org/index.html
Matt [/Quote]



Matt, I had quit logging in the forestry industry here in Manitoba 20 yrs ago when mechanicalization replaced my chainsaw. But at the time being a member of the I.W.A. union based out of British Columbia all our safety procedures and training came from B.C.
I remember how we were shown in videos at the time how forestry work in the United Kingdom was predominately farm tractors converted to skidders for logging.
From that today I can see you Brits may still be going through a learning curve. The B.C Canada charter is a good policy to follow. Probably the most advanced on the planet.

 

[pete mctree]

Paul, Burnham...

Thanks for that guys that's great. The problem is we have fairly robust procedure in terms of training and certification BUT the fatalities still occur.

The main problem being attitudes and the fact that someone can do a course and be in the woods or on a machine with little or no experience. Those on the ground want to push for a apprentice type scheme where a log book is issued and hours logged to prove competence. It's would be audited and administered primarily by employers.

We need to change attitudes at the bottom, this new group will look to improve accident and near miss rates throughout the forestry industry before the government starts charging us for investigations and non-conformance.

The key with all these things is getting a healthy percentage on board to push forward!

A big issue & in my opinion a huge problem with the UK system is the frequency of certification/refresher training. As it currently stands, after initial assessment of basic competence, at the beginning of a workers career, there is only a basic requirement to gain minimal refresher training every 5 years.
This does no mentor a worker into the job. It does not check whether they can even complete the task proficiently & safely. I feel that the entire system is counter productive. An employer will neglect any further training or supervision as the job has already been done? However if no prior training was given then an employer would be more likely to mentor & monitor staff, perhaps improving there chances of avoiding accidents through inexperience?
If we train, we set a standard & this must be maintained. On-site audits? Graded levels of achievement?
Just a few thoughts...

 

[HolmenTree]

The faller and bucker textbook: http://faculty.forestry.ubc.ca/bendickson/FOPRLibrary/Library/Safe Work/WCB fallers_buckers.pdf

I know most of the folks on the list if you want to name drop (use my real name of course not my nickname here lol).

Hey Paul, my 1973 Faller and Bucker textbook is almost exactly the same, minus a few changes in illustrations.

BTW, Dwayne and Nancy are having me attend their ArborCanada team building conference in Mexico next January

 

[Paul B]

Nice, say hi to Dwayne for me, doubt he will remember me but I did talk with him a number of times at a local trade show the last few years. Of his crew I know Thor the best but since he sold to Bartlett I dont know how much involvement he has had with the arbor canada crew.

 

[HolmenTree]

Nice, say hi to Dwayne for me, doubt he will remember me but I did talk with him a number of times at a local trade show the last few years. Of his crew I know Thor the best but since he sold to Bartlett I dont know how much involvement he has had with the arbor canada crew.

Yes I will say your greetings to Dwayne for you Paul.
I remember Thor from B.C......a dominant figure............ he would make a better salesmen then an instructor. The arborcanada crew both Canadian and American has a lot to offer to the public.

I'm just finding the opportunity of my new found travels is putting some stress on my young wife and family.................if anything just a re-adjustment is needed.

 

[Buzz]

A big issue & in my opinion a huge problem with the UK system is the frequency of certification/refresher training. As it currently stands, after initial assessment of basic competence, at the beginning of a workers career, there is only a basic requirement to gain minimal refresher training every 5 years.
This does no mentor a worker into the job. It does not check whether they can even complete the task proficiently & safely. I feel that the entire system is counter productive. An employer will neglect any further training or supervision as the job has already been done? However if no prior training was given then an employer would be more likely to mentor & monitor staff, perhaps improving there chances of avoiding accidents through inexperience?
If we train, we set a standard & this must be maintained. On-site audits? Graded levels of achievement?
Just a few thoughts...

I agree Pete, the problem is there is massive resistance to re-certification / refresher training at a grass roots level in Forestry. The main reason being, as it always is, cost. Contractors just can't afford the time out to do it when margins are squeezed so tight.

I find alot of the time that you can implement H&S procedures and it is nodded and signed onto, then when you leave site its straight back to the old ways. The same can be said for re-assessment, guys perform well on the day and then go back to taking short cuts in the woods.

Attitudes need to change first.

HolmenTree, you make a good point, the head of one of the largest forestry companies in the UK admitted to a room full of contractors that he had no idea about some of our older certification schemes that are indeed better than today. (Fastco Pete)

Its going to be an interesting few months!