You are now a logger

[NeTree]

Guess I'm glad I'm a logger already.

You're not a logger.


You're a wholesale tree massacre specialist.

 

[Newfie]

You're not a logger.


You're a wholesale tree massacre specialist.

AND a licensed timber harvester.

 

[inztrees]

I do like skidders

 

[squisher]

Paul up here as I understand it from my meeting last year with WCB is this. If the end use of the logs is milling them then you're a logger otherwise you're just a arborist, doesn't matter what length they come down in. Kind of a fine line at times but my main man is a cert'd faller so no worries for me.

 

[Paul B]

for now.... I have heard rumours about WCB following the US system about the length of cuts and such. ITs a big part of why I am helping with the apprentice program, to show WCB that we as an industry can come up with rules and best practices to work safely.

 

[wiley_p]

Nobody is going to like this, but anyway here goes. Myself and a few other guys around here, lots in California, rig all the time. Speedlines, Negative blocking, Driftlining, Lifting logs, trees etc. Some of the things we do are very similar to tower yarding operations, except it easier for us to exceed our rigging systems, Some guys are unaware of the forces being created by the systems we employ, unaware of the compounding force of line angles, in some cases no ability to calculate wood weights. The one possible benefit of this new proposal is more work for guys like me. If this sticks we will be paying more for our liability insurance, and if you have employees, in this state L&I will go up several dollars an hour.

 

[squisher]

for now.... I have heard rumours about WCB following the US system about the length of cuts and such. ITs a big part of why I am helping with the apprentice program, to show WCB that we as an industry can come up with rules and best practices to work safely.

Well keep up the good work then.

I frigging hate red tape bs but I'll do what I have to to make sure I'm legal and covered.

 

[Jonseredbred]

Nobody is going to like this, but anyway here goes. Myself and a few other guys around here, lots in California, rig all the time. Speedlines, Negative blocking, Driftlining, Lifting logs, trees etc. Some of the things we do are very similar to tower yarding operations, except it easier for us to exceed our rigging systems, Some guys are unaware of the forces being created by the systems we employ, unaware of the compounding force of line angles, in some cases no ability to calculate wood weights. The one possible benefit of this new proposal is more work for guys like me. If this sticks we will be paying more for our liability insurance, and if you have employees, in this state L&I will go up several dollars an hour.

How will this new OSHA BS convert to more work for you????

If anything it will increase the number of uninsured companys with lower overhead that the rest of us will get beat up by.

 

[wiltingoak]

Doesn't have to be an "uninsured" company, just one that has less workers under the policies.

And I agree, it's going to mean a whole new re-think on the bids and a lot more unqualified pick-up truck owners with an Echo and ladder getting more jobs.

 

[bergsteiger]

How will this new OSHA BS convert to more work for you????

If anything it will increase the number of uninsured companys with lower overhead that the rest of us will get beat up by.

Because Dave is a freelancer and has a better understanding of rigging and how to do it safely then 99% of the guys out here.

 

[Tucker943]

I really think writing to certain officials regarding this is a good idea. Who knows if it will help but I have heard many times in my life, "Dont knock something unless you are willing to help fix it" Or something similar.
I guess its like voting. The person you vote for may not win. But you cant complain about the one in office unless you did your part to try and keep em out.

 

[Jonseredbred]

Because Dave is a freelancer and has a better understanding of rigging and how to do it safely then 99% of the guys out here.

How does this translate to more work??

Insurance companies do not care about your rigging expertise, they only care about your loss ratio.

I have been in business for 19 years and I have never had a loss. With this new OSHA BS it will allow insurance companies to lump me into a logging classification (that has a larger loss ratio as a group than arborists). Bigger premiums right off the bat, then they will be able to tell me that since I was an arborist (and now a logger) I have no practical experience in the logging industry and then remove my experience factor I have worked for so long for and have to pay the highest possible premiums available if I am even insurable.

I am confused how this will gain someone more work who is playing by the rules.

 

[bergsteiger]

I would assume if you only work for yourself and have no employees then L&I increases won't really affect you. So some companies may look to guys (like wiley_p) who can do the work required without the increased cost. Does that make sense? At least that is how I read it.
And I agree it is BS too.

 

[wiley_p]

How does this translate to more work??

Insurance companies do not care about your rigging expertise, they only care about your loss ratio.

I have been in business for 19 years and I have never had a loss. With this new OSHA BS it will allow insurance companies to lump me into a logging classification (that has a larger loss ratio as a group than arborists). Bigger premiums right off the bat, then they will be able to tell me that since I was an arborist (and now a logger) I have no practical experience in the logging industry and then remove my experience factor I have worked for so long for and have to pay the highest possible premiums available if I am even insurable.

I am confused how this will gain someone more work who is playing by the rules.

Insurance companies have always cared about training and safety, Employers very often only care a minute amount for the latter. Now insurance companies will be more likely to suggest to a policy holder that a documented training program could be beneficial. Great, thats where someone like me comes in. Contrary to popular belief, trained employees are much safer, productive, and happier.

 

[Jonseredbred]

I am not beating up your post but I dont understand your earlier statement.

My insurance carrier mandates a written saftey program.

Like I posted before its all about industry loss ratio's and specific loss history when it comes down to determining your premium.

As I said in the post you quoted this new action by OSHA will allow insurance companies to disregard all arborist training & experience when writing a policy that would now be a "logging" policy.

Are you saying that because you are based more on the logging side that it will even the field for you (overhead caused by insurance) when competing with a traditional "tree service" company???

 

[wiley_p]

Since I specifically train tree workers I couldn't be more oriented towards our trade. I contract to tree services and train their crews in all aspects of the industry. If ( I think they will) insurance companies require training and give breaks on premiums, companies that traditionally shun any training program cause they think they already know everything or don't care about evolution of the industry will be more inclined to hire my services and those of my teammates.

 

[Jonseredbred]

Geez, I guess I did not understand what your business is.

Should of put that in your first post and it would have saved me some heart burn

So if you are a trainer, do you agree with how insurance companies might use this new BS to bilk us out of more money.?? And yes I agree, if you are saftey training it will be a plus for you since now arborists will have to have some sort of logging training/saftey program to be in compliance.

Whats your opinion on what I have posted as far as the insurance standpoint?

 

[wiley_p]

What I think of insurance in general isn't fit to post in this area. I think companies are going to take the high hard one with L&I insurance, particularly if your state has the system we have here. I know several loggers and contract fallers who pay over 6.00/hr insurance for their workers. I know one guy who pay 9.70. I won't be fazed much, I'm a single resource, my insurance actually went down 500 bucks this year. I pay premiums that allow me to fall timber, rent cranes and shovels. For sure I expect an increase, thats how it works, no surprise there. But I do anticipate an increase in demand for tailored training programs for small companies. Good for me and the team.

 

[Banned by Squirrels]

Well keep up the good work then.

I frigging hate red tape bs but I'll do what I have to to make sure I'm legal and covered.

Oh squish, the republicans of our country would love you...

 

[squisher]

I give no allegiance to any political party. Politicians are scumbags by nature.

 

[sotc]

saw a bumper sticker today, "politicians are like diapers, they need changed often and for the same reason"