Back up your ascenders

[top hopper]

Why do you ask John?

Was just curious if you were working on a static line.

 

[Tom Dunlap]

Burnham,

I'll try to find some Sterling to climb on. How does it flake down into a pack? there was one of the Sterling ropes that got pretty wire-like after a descent. KMIII would get a bit stiff too. That meant lots of air space in the pack. My solution was to pull the rope and leave it in large diameter loops on the ground for a while before flaking into the pack. This allowed it to relax a little.

Tachyon is working really well for me. Lighter, compact, doesn't get stiff and neon colors too. No issues with picking but that has never been an issue for me except for the one day that I used a Tibloc which had three full meals of picks on my rope that day.

Unless I were planning a climb that might result in a fall I didn't worry too much about climbing on a static line. Since my one line of KMIII has more stretch than any other doubled climbing rope it was a wash. For climbing above a tie in point a dynamic line is needed. but that's another story...

 

[SkwerI]

.... Unless I were planning a climb that might result in a fall I didn't worry too much about climbing on a static line....

Wow. Just wow. I'm sure there may be a context in which the above comment doesn't sound bad, but I'm not sure where that may be. But then I don't usually plan on falling either.

 

[treesandsurf]

Do mountaineers back up their jumars/ascenders when scaling mountains??

jp

 

[OTGBOSTON]

. But then I don't usually plan on falling either.

neither was he.........

Tom, what on earth were you using a tibloc for? only use I have found is for holding a bucket for cabling gear.

 

[Tom Dunlap]

Wow. Just wow. I'm sure there may be a context in which the above comment doesn't sound bad, but I'm not sure where that may be. But then I don't usually plan on falling either.

Climbing above the highest tie in point to do work 'up top'. think of a fragile softwood top where you might have to work above. If the top broke off you would fall some distance before being stopped by your TIP/anchor. The climber would stay tied into their normal system then lead climb, setting slings to use as redis. If the top peels the dynamic rope and the slings zipper to add some shock absorbing to the system.

Or, when more work is out at the ends of the canopy doing subordination or restructuring rather than inside the canopy. More and more of the pruning work I do is in the outer fourth of the crown where there aren't a lot of super strong primary TIPs. Planning for a possible fall or TIP break is part of the game. Using dynamic ropes, many natural redis and sling/biners choked will reduce the fall factor/distance.

Burnham can probably link to the USFS manual that illustrates the system that they use.

i used the Tibloc for part of one day when they first came on the market. It's been in the bottom of my ascender bucket since then. Someone told me taht they make good bottle openers too.

 

[No_Bivy]

mother of god........srt is what it is...... slow but easy. It wont replace the friction hitch.....

static is static, whip on a DRT system......friction hitch will slip...whip on a SRT...youre' focked. Unless you like mid air chiropractic adjustment..


tom you are a srt troll next time you are in the WNC area, please enlighten me. Maybe a poll should start both here and the buzz, lets see who "only" does srt.

 

[OTGBOSTON]

I'm thinking that the most resistance against SRT is coming from guys who can footlock well........................I'm just sayin'

 

[MasterBlaster]

I can't footlock or SRT.

 

[Blinky]

Do mountaineers back up their jumars/ascenders when scaling mountains??

jp

I never backed up a jumar until I started climbing trees but when you jug a rope you're tied into two of 'em. I never used anything but standard D biners either. I gotta admit, I like using backups now.

 

[OTGBOSTON]

I can't footlock or SRT.

that'd make you part of the majority of treeguys I know!

 

[Blinky]

that'd make you part of the majority of treeguys I know!

It's a bitch to learn... but don't you want to climb Ranger style? It's just cool as all get out.

 

[lumberjack]

SRT is fine for ascending taller runs, or even shorter trees you don't have to work the bottom of (fly to the top, cable, bomb out, for example).

SRT sucks for working. I started my tree life doing SRT, then I went all doubled rope and haven't looked back.

 

[MasterBlaster]

I was wondering about that.

 

[lumberjack]

Oh, and the only "fall" I've had was on SRT while ascending. Limb broke, TIP fell a foot or two, and I kept going, no biggy.

 

[wiley_p]

I'm thinking that the most resistance against SRT is coming from guys who can footlock well........................I'm just sayin'

That, and day in day out deal with an average tree height of 65-70'

 

[No_Bivy]

I aint resistent.... but ...drt is king for working

I will srt if need be.......

 

[wiley_p]

I aint resistent.... but ...drt is king for working

I will srt if need be.......

You don't lie brother But for canopy entry at height, srt rocks, and only for that.

 

[No_Bivy]

word

 

[Tom Dunlap]

next time you are in the WNC area, please enlighten me.

And I'll extend an invite to you

If you're ever in the Dallas environs we'll go and climb. Believe it or not, there are some BIG trees in the Metroplex.

Or come up to Boise for the PNW chapter meeting in September.

 

[NeTree]

Maybe it's because I'm originally from northern Maine, so I'm already "down south".... but I can't imagine climbing trees in the summer in places like Texas and Louisiana. I think I'd MELT.

 

[MasterBlaster]

It takes a weird skill you need to develop... like knowing when to stop so you don't DIE.

 

[ScottThornley]

Do mountaineers back up their jumars/ascenders when scaling mountains??

jp

Yes, for both mountaineering and rock climbing. And a friction knot is not considered to be a reliable backup.

Traditionally, your real belay device when mountaineering on expedition style fixed lines is your ice ax, and the ascender is the backup.

When jugging overhanging rock, a climber would tie onto the end of the climbing rope when starting to jug the pitch, and then re-tie every X feet on the ascent. X being dependent on the climbing environment, comfort level of the climber etc... Two locking biners on your harness make this easy.

With my pure rock/mountaineering background so far, looking at DdRT just doesn't give me a warm comfy feeling, but I'm betting that is because I expect the belay chain to absorb serious falls. So there is no way that I feel ok with an ascender/friction knot being in the belay chain. But, because I know there's a bombproof tie-in to the rope, I feel comfortable using 6-7mm accessory cord for prussiks. Different environments and requirements for the two activities.

Regards,
Scott

 

[OTGBOSTON]

welcome to the HOUSE Scott!

 

[Bounce]

Scott- Like you, I came into the tree biz with a background in rock climbing, and have learned that there are a lot more differences between the two than there are similarities. Tree climbing systems are not expected to withstand a lead climbing fall because we use static rope instead of dynamic. Also, having to frequently change directions up and down in tree work, it makes it extremely inefficient to use ascenders and descenders in SRT like you would in rock climbing because you spend a good portion of your time changing out your hardware. The doubled rope technique is the most popular method for tree work because the friction hitch (which is completely reliable) works as both an ascender and a descender, and allows the user to pull the line out of tree from the ground more easily.